The Deck Jacket thread.

[TartuWolf]

Thanks @CatsCan ! Shame that none of this includes info about body taper or waist / bottom in relation to pit to pit.

 

[CatsCan]

Thanks @CatsCan ! Shame that none of this includes info about body taper or waist / bottom in relation to pit to pit.

True. It only gives some indications. When you take the shoulder to shoulder and pit to pit measures and divide them, you end up having a factor, that can indicate a slimmer vs a wider torsal cut, when you look at the back length. There is always a taper from the pit to pit dimension to the waist. If the pit to pit is very wide compared to shoulder to shoulder, than the taper is very much, if the pit to pit is closer to the shoulder, it tapers less. So if you want to have a waist close to the shoulder-shoulder measure, take a look at the shoulder measure and take the jacket with the least difference to the pit to pit. Ideally they should provide at least one more measurement in their charts, a straight line across between pit and hem.

The original jackets were cut better than most replicas after this research.

 

[CatsCan]

Did you consider Bill Kelso's take on the N1?

 

[CatsCan]

Bill Kelso (10 cm difference between sh to sh and p to p):

 

[TartuWolf]

Haven't considered it no. I'm strictly looking at used options and I've never seen a used BK N1 for sale.
Also what's with the 68 back length on a lot of these? I feel like one of the reasons I actually like the N1 over a lot of other jacket styles is that it is rather short (at least how I imagine it). So I'd like go find something that is around 60-63cm, definitely not 68.
Also can you comment on whether this is your guess or observation from handling/measuring multiple N1 jackets?
"So if you want to have a waist close to the shoulder-shoulder measure, take a look at the shoulder measure and take the jacket with the least difference to the pit to pit."
I would have never guessed that such a correlation exists. On the other hand the 50s mc jackets tend to have extra wide shoulders (which makes them closer to the pit-to-pit) and do have more taper for sure..

 

[CatsCan]

Yes, when the shoulders are cut extra wide than this equation is no longer valuable. "My" correlation is only refering to the standard sizes.

Yes, it is largely my experience from handling/owning N1s but also other Jackets in the past 15 years. The Plus sizes (50) are indeed different in this respect, this could be - and here I am indeed guessing - because the industry takes special proportions of this group of potential customers into account. Last Year I read an interesting article. It was about measuring over 100000 people of all ages and sexes and creating an updated profile of how for example trousers should be cut to fit the average. It turned out, that modern body dimensions and proportions differ from those taken 40 years ago, when a similar study was done. Thus, the cutting and sizing still used today turned out to be less ideal for todays people than it was decades ago.
Trouser sizes are now updated, meaning, waist sizes go up one size but legs stay largely the same, proportionally.
And it can be seen having been implemented by some companies already, f.e. Fjällräven. I have experienced it myself. My belly and seat is bigger now than it was 10 years ago. But when I buy the 'same' FR pants used (my proven old model) just one size bigger, the legs are much too loose and it doesn't fit right. I bought their 'updated fit' new in my new size and while it fits me in the waist now it is feeling identical around my legs, so as if I took my good old pants and had them altered in the waist. A good thing.

Same applies for jackets/coats. Today men spend more time doing fitness exercises than men 40 years ago. Broad shoulders and slim waist are what they are aiming at. Thus, fashion industry has to adapt.

What I want to say with this is, that fashion industry always tries to cut for the average but the average is not always well served when scientific data is old.

Short, the more we differ from the (old) average (small or very large), the more difficulties we have finding a perfect fit for us. Adding to this problem is, what market manufacturers are aiming at. Those who aim at asian customers cut different than those aiming at US customers. Shoes made for italian customers are smaller and slimmer cut than shoes for the Northern European market.

Did you try Bronson? I don't know how much they have adapted to the US or Euro market nowadays, though, I only have experience with their older N-1s. You could have a look at some pure asian market brands. Blackadder or Canuck Panda could be of help here as they have a deep insight here.

 

[TartuWolf]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and suggestions. So far I've only tried Pike Brothers and Buzz Rickson. Hearing a lot of great stuff about Iron Heart N1 in the other thread. Would be interesting to try that as well as Bronson. Bronson does not ship to EE but maybe something from 2nd hand market which I'm sticking to anyway.

 

[mumpy]

Haven't considered it no. I'm strictly looking at used options and I've never seen a used BK N1 for sale.
Also what's with the 68 back length on a lot of these? I feel like one of the reasons I actually like the N1 over a lot of other jacket styles is that it is rather short (at least how I imagine it). So I'd like go find something that is around 60-63cm, definitely not 68.
Also can you comment on whether this is your guess or observation from handling/measuring multiple N1 jackets?
"So if you want to have a waist close to the shoulder-shoulder measure, take a look at the shoulder measure and take the jacket with the least difference to the pit to pit."
I would have never guessed that such a correlation exists. On the other hand the 50s mc jackets tend to have extra wide shoulders (which makes them closer to the pit-to-pit) and do have more taper for sure..

60-63 sounds pretty short for an n-1. I am not intimately familiar with different sizes but for a tag size 40 i would expect at least 26 inches back length (and i prefer shorter ones if possible).

 

[mumpy]

Pike Brothers N-1 in medium, too bad I sold it!

Freewheelers N-1

I have now sold both of these and currently own an RMC N-1 which I am relatively happy with (so to speak )

 

[TartuWolf]

60-63 sounds pretty short for an n-1. I am not intimately familiar with different sizes but for a tag size 40 i would expect at least 26 inches back length (and i prefer shorter ones if possible).

Fair enough 60-63 is pretty extreme. But the PB one was around 61cm back and the BR one is ~64 (even though it was advertised as 61..). So I think ~63-65 is more realistic and would work fine, especially considering that the buttons work as a two way zipper in terms of sitting.

 

[WolfofStateSt]

Iron Heart XXL?

Ohhhh I done goofed lmao. I thought I saw 20.5 shoulders and 23 Pit 2 Pit. My bad…

 

[WolfofStateSt]

The best pattern and alpaca I had was on a Freewheelers N-1. Alpaca was super thick and soft, not comparable at all to other makers I have tried.

I have a hot take, but Freewheelers only have 10% more alpaca than Iron Heart. So you’re paying a couple hundred more for a marginal difference in alpaca. From your experience, it seems to be a noticeable difference—so perhaps it’s worth it. I greatly respect Freewheelers jackets; if you told me they were the best manufacturers in the game right now, I would probably believe you. Still, if I were to buy something from Freewheelers, I would get the deck workers' jacket. It's close enough to an N-1, with a similar zipper closure system, and is a third of the price. Someone on this forum told me that buying an A2 (Flight jacket) from RMC is foolish when they have so many unique patterns and many other manufacturers make leather A2s. I feel as though you could apply the same here. Buzz Ricksons is half the price of Freewheelers and has a 50% alpaca blend. If Freewheelers has a pattern that better suits your body and you’re comfortable paying hundreds more for it 100%, go for it. Personally, though, Freewheelers makes so many other unique and cool jackets other companies don’t; at that point, I would buy one of those. Everyone has a basic deck jacket at this point; it might pay to be a bit more original if you are going with Freewheelers. (This comes from someone who just got a deck jacket, so go figure). I'm sure I’ll get crucified for this opinion, but ah, well.

 

[WolfofStateSt]

My addendum is that the deck worker jacket is only on sale-select sites. The deck worker jacket and parka are still half the price, and I haven’t seen those from other manufacturers, at least to my knowledge. The trade-off is no alpaca lining.

 

[CatsCan]

I'm sure I’ll get crucified for this opinion, but ah, well

Why?

 

[CatsCan]

I heard many good things about IH N1s and the fit pics of members here show that this is a well cut and good looking jacket on most I have seen. Plus, they look quite modern, not so - uhm - anachronistic in lack of a better word. Because they are quite popular they are more frequently seen second hand and their resale value is good enough for trying them out and either keep or sell them. Over here, where Pike Brothers dominate the market, PB N1s are offered in many classified sites but don't seem to sell for more than half of their retail price, often times even much less than that.

@mumpy is that a waxed PB you sold?

 

[CatsCan]

WHAT ARE WE DOING HERE? We should dance around the christmas tree right now

 

[mumpy]

I have a hot take, but Freewheelers only have 10% more alpaca than Iron Heart. So you’re paying a couple hundred more for a marginal difference in alpaca. From your experience, it seems to be a noticeable difference—so perhaps it’s worth it. I greatly respect Freewheelers jackets; if you told me they were the best manufacturers in the game right now, I would probably believe you. Still, if I were to buy something from Freewheelers, I would get the deck workers' jacket. It's close enough to an N-1, with a similar zipper closure system, and is a third of the price. Someone on this forum told me that buying an A2 (Flight jacket) from RMC is foolish when they have so many unique patterns and many other manufacturers make leather A2s. I feel as though you could apply the same here. Buzz Ricksons is half the price of Freewheelers and has a 50% alpaca blend. If Freewheelers has a pattern that better suits your body and you’re comfortable paying hundreds more for it 100%, go for it. Personally, though, Freewheelers makes so many other unique and cool jackets other companies don’t; at that point, I would buy one of those. Everyone has a basic deck jacket at this point; it might pay to be a bit more original if you are going with Freewheelers. (This comes from someone who just got a deck jacket, so go figure). I'm sure I’ll get crucified for this opinion, but ah, well.

I haven't tried the IH N-1 so can't comment on that. The Freewheelers also had really terrible, wobbly stitching as well. This seems to be common for their non-leather jacket reproductions. If you can find it used at a good price point, I think it can be a good deal in terms of functionality/fit.

Another difference is that the Freewheelers has alpaca in the sleeves as well. The IH one doesn't as far as I know.

 

[mumpy]

I heard many good things about IH N1s and the fit pics of members here show that this is a well cut and good looking jacket on most I have seen. Plus, they look quite modern, not so - uhm - anachronistic in lack of a better word. Because they are quite popular they are more frequently seen second hand and their resale value is good enough for trying them out and either keep or sell them. Over here, where Pike Brothers dominate the market, PB N1s are offered in many classified sites but don't seem to sell for more than half of their retail price, often times even much less than that.

@mumpy is that a waxed PB you sold?

Yes indeed that was a waxed PB that I sold. Very nice jacket.

 

[WolfofStateSt]

Why?

Yeah. I guess crucifixion is more of an Easter thing. Wrong holiday.

 

[WolfofStateSt]

I haven't tried the IH N-1 so can't comment on that. The Freewheelers also had really terrible, wobbly stitching as well. This seems to be common for their non-leather jacket reproductions. If you can find it used at a good price point, I think it can be a good deal in terms of functionality/fit.

Another difference is that the Freewheelers has alpaca in the sleeves as well. The IH one doesn't as far as I know.

I know there are higher alpaca blends than Freewheelers. Freewheelers seem to be more regarded for their leather jackets, which I’ve heard are some of the best.

And yes, the Iron Heart has quilted sleeves, which I believe are satin off the top of my head.