The Deck Jacket thread.

[WolfofStateSt]

I heard many good things about IH N1s and the fit pics of members here show that this is a well cut and good looking jacket on most I have seen. Plus, they look quite modern, not so - uhm - anachronistic in lack of a better word. Because they are quite popular they are more frequently seen second hand and their resale value is good enough for trying them out and either keep or sell them. Over here, where Pike Brothers dominate the market, PB N1s are offered in many classified sites but don't seem to sell for more than half of their retail price, often times even much less than that.

@mumpy is that a waxed PB you sold?

I know some people want as much historical accuracy as possible, even I do sometimes but I think Iron Heart is an improved designed. It has snaps on the pockets so you don’t lose stuff you might put in there, and an internal pocket. Not to mention, my kryptonite, the YKK over built zipper, better than the Talon crap RMC uses imo.

 

[CatsCan]

Is the RMC considered good? I’m looking for a deck jacket. I prefer an M-43, but I could also use the Iron Heart or Heat Straps N-1. I have no clue where to start.

I hope Marc doesn't see this or he will give me shit again for thinking in terms of measurements...

I'm sure I’ll get crucified for this opinion, but ah, well.

better than the Talon crap RMC uses imo

Good morning,
I have some questions still ringing in my head that I want to get rid of.
@WolfofStateSt: You have not seen the RMC N-1 in person yet?
Why do you think you get "crucified" here for an opinion?
Why do you think the Talon Repro Zipper used by RMC is "crap"?
@TartuWolf: Why is Marc giving you "shit"?
Cheers
Cats

 

[Will Zach]

I know some people want as much historical accuracy as possible, even I do sometimes but I think Iron Heart is an improved designed. It has snaps on the pockets so you don’t lose stuff you might put in there, and an internal pocket. Not to mention, my kryptonite, the YKK over built zipper, better than the Talon crap RMC uses imo.

My own approach is that if I want historical accuracy, I will get an original. I could not care less if some manufacturer riffs on an N-1, making small (or even large) changes. Like the Silverman's N-1, made with 17-oz, heavy-ass coarse canvas. Probably a far cry from the original "jungle cloth", but so so cool. Also, the jacket has a snap-on faux fur collar. I doubt it is historically accurate, but I love that as well. Oh, and it also has a heavy-duty snap on the internal pocket so my stuff won't fall out. And a smooth YKK zipper. All for a $100, give or take. Lol.

 

[TartuWolf]

Good morning,
I have some questions still ringing in my head that I want to get rid of.
@WolfofStateSt: You have not seen the RMC N-1 in person yet?
Why do you think you get "crucified" here for an opinion?
Why do you think the Talon Repro Zipper used by RMC is "crap"?
@TartuWolf: Why is Marc giving you "shit"?
Cheers
Cats

Short version:
I focus more or 2d measurements, he focuses on 3d pattern.

Long version:
Well I'm often too concerned/focused on measurements in terms of guessing how a given jacket would fit me, which is a rather simplistic/robotic approach. I agree with him that a good pattern can make a wide range of measurements fit and look good on a wide variety of bodies, but I don't have nearly as much knowledge and experience as him in this regard. So I still use measurements as the only way to make an educated guess as to whether I should risk a given purchase or not. Again, huge respect to him and I see why he criticizes me in this regarding, but so far that's how I operate. The biggest win I can attribute to myself (and I'm proud of it haha) is discovering a crucial difference between "chest" measurements (pit-to-pit) and chest measurements (narrowest point between armhole seams midway between pit-to-pit and shoulders). For example if two jackets have 50cm pit-to-pit, but one has 35cm chest and the other one has 37-38cm chest then the first one will not fit me and the second one will in terms of comfort. Again, primitive/robotic mathematical 2d thinking when talking about a complex 3d object, but it still helps me make a guess.

 

[CatsCan]

I guess that is how I do it, too. My reference points are shoulder to shoulder and pit to pit relation. I divide pit to pit by shoulder to shoulder. The smaller the result, the slimmer the fit in the body/torso, at least with N-1s. It is a rather helpless approach but since I can not try them on in person like in a store, what else can I do. I somtimes annoy sellers with questions about additional measurements of the exact jacket he will send me. Some are very helpful, most don't even reply. We are talking about rather expensive jackets compared to what most people buy in High Street Stores, so I'd expect some kind of cooperation when it comes to my hard earned money.

 

[CatsCan]

I really want to like the Pike Brothers N1s. Such a well made jacket with wonderful material. But I wish they would hear me and slightly tweak their patterning. The Mil-Tec pattern with Pike Brothers materials and pocket placement plus Mash's replica buttons and Kelsos Alpaca lining and I will be satisfied.

 

[mumpy]

Personally I am fed up with talon zippers on any jacket. They are too fragile and always have to be careful when using them. Not worth my energy honestly.

 

[mumpy]

Short version:
I focus more or 2d measurements, he focuses on 3d pattern.

Long version:
Well I'm often too concerned/focused on measurements in terms of guessing how a given jacket would fit me, which is a rather simplistic/robotic approach. I agree with him that a good pattern can make a wide range of measurements fit and look good on a wide variety of bodies, but I don't have nearly as much knowledge and experience as him in this regard. So I still use measurements as the only way to make an educated guess as to whether I should risk a given purchase or not. Again, huge respect to him and I see why he criticizes me in this regarding, but so far that's how I operate. The biggest win I can attribute to myself (and I'm proud of it haha) is discovering a crucial difference between "chest" measurements (pit-to-pit) and chest measurements (narrowest point between armhole seams midway between pit-to-pit and shoulders). For example if two jackets have 50cm pit-to-pit, but one has 35cm chest and the other one has 37-38cm chest then the first one will not fit me and the second one will in terms of comfort. Again, primitive/robotic mathematical 2d thinking when talking about a complex 3d object, but it still helps me make a guess.

I also use 2d measurements but I have created a relatively large library of notes regarding measurements and fits of all the jackets I ever had. I consult these notes to offset/adjust the measurements depending on the type of jacket/brand I want to buy etc.

So the measurements I use are 2d but they are not linearly correlated. It depends on the pattern/fit/preference/purpose.

2d measurements is the common language between buyer and seller. With a library of additional notes regarding fit you can hope to make good calls.

 

[CatsCan]

Personally I am fed up with talon zippers on any jacket. They are too fragile and always have to be careful when using them. Not worth my energy honestly.

You are right, many are flimsy. The only Talon zipper "repro" I have good experiences with is the steel version, the older Pike Brothers N1 used to have attatched. It is as functional as a normal YKK zipper.

 

[CatsCan]

I also use 2d measurements but I have created a relatively large library of notes regarding measurements and fits of all the jackets I ever had. I consult these notes to offset/adjust the measurements depending on the type of jacket/brand etc.

So the measurements I use are 2d but they are not linearly correlated. It depends on the pattern/fit/preference/purpose.

The difficulties with N-1s come with one unknown factor and this is the lining. Pike for example had a very thick wool pile and it could be a task to go by the outer dimensions of the jacket and still have the jacket fit well by receiving it. I think I can add two inches to the chest just because of it's lining alone. But then the sleeves are too long with the Pike and they are not easy to alter..

Edit: I don't know about the lining in their newer production runs however since I only have experiences with older versions of theirs.

 

[mumpy]

The difficulties with N-1s come with one unknown factor and this is the lining. Pike for example has a very thick wool pile and it can be a task to go by the outer dimensions of the jacket and still have the jacket fit well by receiving it. I think I can add two inches to the chest just because of it's lining alone. But then the sleeves are too long with the Pike and they are not easy to alter..

Did you own the PB N-1? The lining was significantly more compact than the Freewheelers for example. Main reason why the Freewheelers was too small for me was the fact that I underestimated the height/density of the lining.

Also when I got the RMC N-1 I was disappointed regarding the density of the lining even though it felt way more luxurious than any other N-1 I had tried. I heard Dehen might have a similar quality to it from what I have read but probably lacks on historical accuracy.

The RMC deck jacket is warm enough though, I just find it quite bulky around the waist. I use the drawstring to adjust it.

 

[MrProper]

For example if two jackets have 50cm pit-to-pit, but one has 35cm chest and the other one has 37-38cm chest then the first one will not fit me and the second one will

That was exactly the problem with my field leathers jacket. Chest was two or three centimetres narrower than other jackets, p2p was identical. That combined with the excessive sleeve rotation was the killer.
With p2p you should also factor in the size of the armholes. With deep armholes (which I don't like), a little less p2p is also possible.
3D would certainly make more sense when assessing whether a jacket fits. But as I have no idea how to do that, I'll stick with 2D. With very few exceptions, I've done well with it so far.

 

[CatsCan]

With p2p you should also factor in the size of the armholes. With deep armholes (which I don't like), a little less p2p is also possible.

Absolutely true. Good point.

 

[CatsCan]

3D would certainly make more sense when assessing whether a jacket fits. But as I have no idea how to do that, I'll stick with 2D. With very few exceptions, I've done well with it so far.

But, with respect, you can wear anything and look good. I am not as lucky.

 

[CatsCan]

Did you own the PB N-1? The lining was significantly more compact than the Freewheelers for example.

10 or so years ago I owned one of their second production batches and it had a very thick wool lining. My understanding is, that they changed this in later batches in favor for a shorter "flor" (?). Currently I one one of their very first batches from a time when they just had started producing these. It's lining is not as densely woven and has longer "hair", you can actually comb it.

 

[CatsCan]

By the way, I like the color of the PB waxed khaki version, maybe I should give their newer versions a try. But I am sure that the cut of their newer ones is still not what I personally like.