The Conversion Corral

[RJR]

+1 on Bond's work.

 

[TheDane]

Dane, I'm sure we'd all like to see some of your work posted. Clearly you are a master craftsman, although I don't recall ever seeing anything you've done?.

No, Sir. As the attentive reader of threads on TFL will know, I have more than once refered to myself as "sheer amateur". I have never pretended to be a professional hatter in any way what so ever. I have a very intensive interest in hatting, and I guess, that's why Bond and other loungers have contacted me in PMs and asked for advice - just as I have asked other loungers for advice.

The first couple of conversions I saw from Bond, the sweat was placed too far into the crown for the reed to act as supposed. We discussed the topic a bit, and according to himself, he was pretty happy to learn how the sweatband should be best placed in the hat-opening - and changed his routines. I was just echoing, what I had learned from reading on TFL, and what hatters had told me.

Now I noticed the same issue again, and allowed myself to ask Bond, if it was the light, that played a trick. What on Earth is wrong with that? Would you find comatose back-patting more helpful? Is it really true, there's no longer room for feedback in "The Concersion Corral" ... only "sweetback"?

I'm not quite sure, what my hats has got to do with the sweatband in Bond's hat. Your request seems more like an immature attempt to handle fair criticism [huh]

 

[T Jones]

Thanks!

You're welcome buddy...If you pounce yours let me know how it comes out.

 

[Geldoc]

Bond, that's a gorgeous hat.

 

[John Galt]

The question seemed like a reasonable inquiry to me, and didn't appear to have any animus intended. This is a discussion forum, after all, and the photo was posted for comment.

For what it's worth, I see what Olė is asking about, and note that from the photo at least, the rear of the reeded sweatband does seem to sit inside the crown rather than overlapping a bit as is customary for such sweatbands. Maybe it is a trick of the light as Olė postulated, but it seemed a fair comment/question based on the photo, and not at all ill intentioned.

I initially sewed my own sweats inside the crown before several folks here, TheDane & Tonyb, among others (thanks fellas!), explained the proper way to flare a reed so that it seats in the crown cavity and overlaps the foot. I appreciated their comments. I also recall the conversation Olė referenced in his follow-up post regarding this issue.

Although Bond has not yet responded, he strikes me as a gentleman, and he probably took the inquiry not as criticism, but as a question and an attempt to help if indeed, it was not a trick of the light. There must be room here for inquiry, comment, constructive criticism, and learning, no? Those are the features that keep me coming back...

 

[Joao Encarnado]

Working on the sweatband of my 30x beaver Stetson... been able to unglue it by soaking the leather. Apart some glue residue I don't mind, it seems to be repairable without trimming it.
Now to let it dry for the next step: re-sewing it to the original nappa and find a bit to mend it.

 

[John Galt]

Glad that worked for you. Looks unreeded, yes?

 

[Joao Encarnado]

It's dry and the leather didn't got stiff. Nice as I want to keep all those X's.
What do you call reed? It only have that nappa that is sewed to the hat body.

 

[John Galt]

Reeded sweats have a monofilament that runs through a reeding ribbon. The reed is longer than the internal circumference of the crown, and when the sweat is pulled tight & sewn together, it flares the bottom of the sweatband out like a bell. This is seated against the bottom outside rim of the foot, to keep the stitching away from the wearer's forehead. The reed also gives the sweat a little more stiffness, for lack of a better term.

Here's an example on my Beaver Brand 100% beaver fedora.

An unreeded sweatband has no reed and is either sewn directly to the body, or joined to another piece of material that is sewn to the body. Here's an example on my 1940's Stratoliner.

Yours appears to be unreeded.

 

[Joao Encarnado]

The leather is sew to this "nappa" you call reed and than this "nappa" is sewed to the felt. The leather is not sewed directly to the felt so this is like the first picture.
All hats I own have the sweat band like the first picture. I do not own a hat with a sweat band like the second picture, so all are reeded.

 

[Mr.Astor]

Joao, chance's are the reed has already belled to the hat circumference. You may have to trim a little off the bottom edge of sweat meaning the end of sweat that point's to the top of the crown, so you can keep it close to the side of the crown you can tape it from behind or sew the two pieces together. I have found tan masking tape adheres to the fibre on the inside of a sweat like a hound on a hog it won't let go it will pull the leather fibre's off before it will release. A lot of hat manufacturer's used this process of taping, it is not objectionable. Just my opinion! Best of luck!

 

[Joao Encarnado]

I'm not sure of what are you refer to. The leather is all original, I only need a bit of reed to mend the missing part (I checked the stitching holes and they are "intact" (not ripped)), sew this again to the felt and sew the "back". Don't have a bow but I think I might have a thin ribbon to make one.

 

[John Galt]

Joao,

It's taken me a bit, and I had to look at your photo again, but I think I understand.

Wish I had my own photos. I think I posted some a while back on this, here or in the hatter's tools thread.

If your sweats are all reeded, they consist of the sweatband itself, a reeding backing ribbon, the overlapping piece of thin leather (you say nappa - I had to look this up ;-) that makes a long tunnel/channel for a monofilament to run through, the monofilament, and a ferrule that joins the monofilament.

The tunnel on your sweat appears damaged, and it sounds as if you plan to buy a thin piece of leather to make the repair. That's great.

It also looks like the reed itself (the monofilament) is missing, as I don't see it in the photo. If it is, you'll probably also want to replace it and flare the sweat as described when you join the ends.

I'll look for those photos.

EDIT - Here's my post (with pics) from the hatter's tools thread explaining how to put the sweat together & flare it properly. You have to look close to see the reed in the first photo, it is clear. Heavy duty fishing line should work for a reed - not my own idea, but a good one.

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showpost.php?p=1746055

 

[Joao Encarnado]

Hm. Yes that "monofilament" is missing. Is it really needed? I didn't know that existed as I never had removed a sweatband before.

 

[Mr.Astor]

Joao- you need the monofilament it bells the sweat to the edge where brim and crown are at right angles a 40lb saltwater fishing line will work and for a ferrule use a little piece off a plastic straw that is used to direct spray from a can of WD40 if you have that in Portugal? Any aerosol product used to free rusty nuts and bolts. You slip the ferrule onto both ends of the monofilament you can hold it with superglue. Hope this helps

 

[T Jones]

My latest project in process...going to be another 3X Open Road / Wanderer conversion. Gotta do a tad more pouncing. Thanks John G. for the sweats. One of them will go in this one. Paint can and bubble wrap blocking!

Notice the color fading where the ribbon used to be. I was going to turn it inside out but the underside of the brim was faded too. It wouldn't have matched the crown.

 

[Joao Encarnado]

Joao- you need the monofilament it bells the sweat to the edge where brim and crown are at right angles a 40lb saltwater fishing line will work and for a ferrule use a little piece off a plastic straw that is used to direct spray from a can of WD40 if you have that in Portugal? Any aerosol product used to free rusty nuts and bolts. You slip the ferrule onto both ends of the monofilament you can hold it with superglue. Hope this helps

Must ask my father if he have a fishing line like that. Yes, WD40 exists in Portugal.
What does that filament in the sweatband? It's just to help to make a circle?

My latest project in process...going to be another 3X Open Road / Wanderer conversion. Gotta do a tad more pouncing. Thanks John G. for the sweats. One of them will go in this one. Paint can and bubble wrap blocking!

I can see that the paint can does really work. Was it a open road?

 

[T Jones]

I can see that the paint can does really work. Was it a open road?

Yes. It's an Open Road. I'm going to put a mid-ribbon on it like the Wanderer had.

 

[ManofKent]

Terry - should look good with a mid-ribbon.

 

[John Galt]

Joao,

The monofilament (reed) flares the bottom of the sweatband out so it sits under the brim instead of inside the crown. This is supposed to make for a more comfortable fit & get the stitching off the forehead. It also adds a little structural support and form retention. Unreeded hats conform better though, IMHO. That and their age attract some Loungers.

It is not strictly necessary to do this step if you don't want to, but it is pretty plain that your hat was originally reeded.

No professional or informed amateur would have overlapped the sweat that way when resizing. The reed was probably lost by whomever made that renovation.

You might not like this, but because the sweat was large enough to overlap and fit in the crown, it seems likely to me that the hat was downsized (hard to do well except on dark colored hats) or came from another larger hat.