The Conversion Corral

[scottyrocks]

Great job, strapped.

For that crown, however, I would go smaller on the brim if I was doing that one myself. Lately I've been taken with 2 1/4" brims so I'd be looking in that range, or at least between that and 2 1/2", but that's me.

 

[VTporkpie]

Good looking conversion BlackMaskPulp, I think the brim width suits based on the photos.

 

[bond]

Good job BMP I would say your hooked now!

 

[Strapped-4-Cache]

Great job, strapped.

For that crown, however, I would go smaller on the brim if I was doing that one myself. Lately I've been taken with 2 1/4" brims so I'd be looking in that range, or at least between that and 2 1/2", but that's me.

Yep, I cut the brim a bit long with the plan of finishing it with either an overwelt or a ribbon. However, I planned to wear it at parties on Wednesday and Friday of next week. I'm not sure I can do the overwelt properly, and can't find cotton/rayon ribbon locally, so I decided to leave it a bit long and unfinished. Maybe after the holidays I will have time to experiment.

Right now I'm just playing with ways to steam the brim into shape without having a wavy edge. This isn't something I expect to do very often, so I'm not going to invest in various flanges and hat forms. I believe one of the posts earlier in this thread mentioned using hoses to hold the brim into shape as it cooled. That's the next method I'm going to try.

 

[suitedcboy]

For brim flanging with no flange i have been successful using a bigger true stainless steel spoon and steaming and working laterally in the middle of the brim all the way around. You effectively want the brim stretched in the middle but not on edges do get a bit of snapped brim shaping. Curling the edge slightly for that effect always got me a coarse looking brim edge. It is hard to shrink that edge to yield a flanged look.

 

[TheDane]

A flanged look comes with the use of a flange. Part of that look is a very sharp break between brim and crown. If you manage to create a good break with iron and foot-tolliker, it will most likely be ruined by a hose, rolled up towel or spoon.

The purpose of flanging is to "set" the stiffener in the brim. The stiffener in vintage hats is shellac, which is thermoplastic. The more the brim is worked and handled over the years, the shellac brakes up within the brim material. To "glue it together", you'll have to apply heat and pressure, which is what the hatter does with flange, iron and sandbagger. A good result can not be obtained by heating the felt and hold it in place while cooling on a helix (hose, tube, rolled up towel, etc). The good result comes with the use of a flange, a flange cloth, a hot iron - and preferably a sandbagger if that is possible

 

[TheDane]

You effectively want the brim stretched in the middle but not on edges do get a bit of snapped brim shaping

Maybe so, but that is not what happens with a flange. The length of the edge of the brim is actually reduced, using a flange. That's why a hatter always flanges the brim before binding it. If he didn't do that, the ribbon wouldn't fit the brim, when flanged. After the binding the brim is re-flanged to press the binding into better alignment with the felt. The center-shape of the brim is not altered by flanging. The edge is.

 

[Strapped-4-Cache]

Didn't mean to initiate a discussion/argument on flanging. My comment was only meant to indicate that didn't have and didn't plan to obtain proper tools because I don't expect to re-work the brim of many hats in the future. I'm just trying to work the felt in the best way possible with household objects already on hand.

 

[T Jones]

Didn't mean to initiate a discussion/argument on flanging. My comment was only meant to indicate that didn't have and didn't plan to obtain proper tools because I don't expect to re-work the brim of many hats in the future. I'm just trying to work the felt in the best way possible with household objects already on hand.

Actually I'm glad a discussion got started on this subject. It's definitely been educational and it's answered some questions for me.

 

[John Galt]

The length of the edge of the brim is actually reduced, using a flange. That's why a hatter always flanges the brim before binding it. If he didn't do that, the ribbon wouldn't fit the brim, when flanged. After the binding the brim is re-flanged to press the binding into better alignment with the felt. The center-shape of the brim is not altered by flanging. The edge is.

This took a little thought to understand, but I think I get it now.

You are saying that the surface area (not circumference) of the edge of the brim changes with flanging, so the brim binding must be applied after flanging rather than before, correct? Also, that the hat is then re-flanged to conform the brim binding better to the shape of the brim, yes?




"Faint hat never won fair lady."

 

[TheDane]

No

If you have a flat brim, it has a certain circumference. If you bend the outmost inch of the brim upward in a straight angle (to keep things simple), the edge now has a smaller circumference. When you flange the brim, you don't bend it in a straight angle, but the result is the same - although less significant.

These two lines are of same length. If they represent one side of the brim before and after flanging, you can see that the edge must have a smaller circumference after flanging. If you look at the hat from above, the circle of the flanged brim is smaller, than it was before flanging. Smaller diameter = smaller circumference:



If the brim is not flanged before binding, the ribbon will be too "slack". It will not help support the brim edge and keep a nice shape/flange.

 

[John Galt]

Gotcha! Great explanation. Thanks!


"Faint hat never won fair lady."

 

[scottyrocks]

Proper flanging before binding will allow that nice snap that brims such as this are supposed to have. Binding and then flanging will lose the snap.

 

[T Jones]

Okay, finally getting something different other than Silverbelly Open Roads! Looks like John Galt will be finishing my 4X Resistol / Indy conversion and mailed out by the end of the week! Alright! I've been wanting an Indy fedora for quite some time!...and it's looking pretty awesome so far! Can't wait to get it!

 

[BlackMaskPulp]

Thanks for the kind words all. Sorry about the delay in my response. My brother and I drove down to Detroit to catch a couple of Red Wings games so I was off the net for a while. The young African American usher said, "That's the best looking hat in this place." Needless to say I had a smile on my face the rest of the night even in spite of the fact that the Wings lost.



Dogman, I really like your style in this thread. I went though all one hundred and eighty some pages before I attempted my little conversion and yours stood out. They have just enough flash to be stylish and tasteful.
Hi bond, I really am hooked now but finances will put a halt on how many hats I try and convert. Great restorations BTW.

 

[DOGMAN]

BlackMaskPulp,Thank you so much.That is a very nice compliment.I also read though all the pages before I did my 1st conversion.Now I'm hooked.I really do enjoy my conversions they are fun to do and wear.I guess it's true if you love doing something it shows.I don't spend more than $30.00 on the westerns I purchase for my conversions.Thanks again.Will be looking forward to seeing your next one.

 

[T Jones]

I don't spend more than $30.00 on the westerns I purchase for my conversions.

Looks like that's the best and most economical way of getting a nice fedora. The Westerns definitely have nice felt and there's plenty of hat to work it the way you want.

 

[Joshbru3]

No

If you have a flat brim, it has a certain circumference. If you bend the outmost inch of the brim upward in a straight angle (to keep things simple), the edge now has a smaller circumference. When you flange the brim, you don't bend it in a straight angle, but the result is the same - although less significant.

These two lines are of same length. If they represent one side of the brim before and after flanging, you can see that the edge must have a smaller circumference after flanging. If you look at the hat from above, the circle of the flanged brim is smaller, than it was before flanging. Smaller diameter = smaller circumference:

View attachment 7139

If the brim is not flanged before binding, the ribbon will be too "slack". It will not help support the brim edge and keep a nice shape/flange.

Ole, VERY good explanation!!!! I will have to steal this picture from you when explaining flanging as well.

 

[Hercule]

No

If you have a flat brim, it has a certain circumference. If you bend the outmost inch of the brim upward in a straight angle (to keep things simple), the edge now has a smaller circumference. When you flange the brim, you don't bend it in a straight angle, but the result is the same - although less significant.

These two lines are of same length. If they represent one side of the brim before and after flanging, you can see that the edge must have a smaller circumference after flanging. If you look at the hat from above, the circle of the flanged brim is smaller, than it was before flanging. Smaller diameter = smaller circumference:

View attachment 7139

If the brim is not flanged before binding, the ribbon will be too "slack". It will not help support the brim edge and keep a nice shape/flange.

The bound edge of the flanged rim, I can imagine, also aides in creating the snap-brim.

 

[scottyrocks]

Yes, it will. The binding is applied so that the material at the edge is just a little 'tighter' than it would be without it, forcing the edge either up or down, hence 'snap' brim.