The Bowler or Derby Hat

[mayserwegener]

Nice find! I really like the profile! I can't help with the logo dating but my guess is late 1950s early 1960s.

 

[newturnofphrase]

Thanks Meyser, there's almost no wear and/or tear that I can detect so either it's last 50 years or else it's been very very well preserved. The style of the brim curl/binding says to me that it's newer as well. I'm pretty happy with it, and as a result I think I'm going to sell my Knox derby as it doesn't fit nearly as well.

 

[bowlerman]

That Dunn & Co. looks great. Congrats, and bravo!


Al, the more I look at that comparison, the more that C&K really stands out. Just superb.

 

[delectans]

Hey, thanks for the kind words on the C&K, Jeff, I appreciate it. I have another extraordinary, early C&K from Minnesota, a Knox Superfine, and a Penn-Craft derby to add to this thread when time and light permit me to take some decent photos.

 

[Caroline H]

Bowler Sighting in uptown Charlotte, NC

I was driving to work recently and was stopped at an intersection when I looked up and saw a man crossing in front of me wearing a hat, obviously walking to work. I knew my husband would be interested to hear about a fellow hat wearer and would be embarrassed if I couldn't identify the basic style of a hat at 20 feet after all the hat details he has taught me (even our daughter, age 8 can identify men's hat styles!) so I looked to see what sort of crown and brim it had and realized it was a bowler! That is pretty unusual around here but he looked very nice in it and comfortable with what he was wearing so it was a very pleasant surprise.

 

[TheRomanhistorian]

newturnofphrase: What a great hat! I love the curl on that brim and the height of the crown is great, too.

Just an update but I got myself a wool felt version of the Christys' bowler. It's not the soft wool version but a very hard version (I think I remember reading once that there was a wool felt version of the basic fur bowler, too). It's heavier than the fur felt, I think. Or, at least, I think it's a heavier hat (the wool crown seems thicker). Quite hard though perhaps maybe a bit less firm and hard than the fur felt and it does pick up dust a little more but I still enjoy it. I think this is more of my 'country' bowler for tweed suits or for non-formal occasions. I'll save my fur felt for city suits and for more formal occasions. I have two black bowlers now, perhaps it's time to branch out to other colours?

 

[delectans]

Bowler Sighting in uptown Charlotte, NC

I was driving to work recently and was stopped at an intersection when I looked up and saw a man crossing in front of me wearing a hat, obviously walking to work. I knew my husband would be interested to hear about a fellow hat wearer and would be embarrassed if I couldn't identify the basic style of a hat at 20 feet after all the hat details he has taught me (even our daughter, age 8 can identify men's hat styles!) so I looked to see what sort of crown and brim it had and realized it was a bowler! That is pretty unusual around here but he looked very nice in it and comfortable with what he was wearing so it was a very pleasant surprise.

Welcome to the lounge, Caroline, and thank you posting your derby sighting...a sadly too infrequent occurence. It is marvelous that your daughter is so knowledgeable regarding hats! Is your husband here on the lounge as well?

 

[Caroline H]

Thanks! My husband is Kirk H. He found the lounge first and told me about it. He was here a while before he told me there was also a section for the ladies and I should join too!

 

[newturnofphrase]

newturnofphrase: What a great hat! I love the curl on that brim and the height of the crown is great, too.

Just an update but I got myself a wool felt version of the Christys' bowler. It's not the soft wool version but a very hard version (I think I remember reading once that there was a wool felt version of the basic fur bowler, too). It's heavier than the fur felt, I think. Or, at least, I think it's a heavier hat (the wool crown seems thicker). Quite hard though perhaps maybe a bit less firm and hard than the fur felt and it does pick up dust a little more but I still enjoy it. I think this is more of my 'country' bowler for tweed suits or for non-formal occasions. I'll save my fur felt for city suits and for more formal occasions. I have two black bowlers now, perhaps it's time to branch out to other colours?

Lol perhaps. It's interesting to hear about the Christys' wool felt. I'm honestly surprised that it is actually heavier than the fur felt, while still being slightly softer. Must be quite a hat!

 

[bowlerman]

Though I'm not familiar up close with Christy's, my first hat was what I'd consider a high quality wool bowler. It was custom made and arrived impeccably blocked and curled. Nice hat. However, had I the same knowledge then as I do now, I wouldn't go wool again, for these similar reasons:

The felt, while having been extremely stiffened, is notably thicker and heavier than fur felt, but doesn't retain its shape through rain, steam, etc. To me it looks like a much bigger hat on my head than it really is. Unfortunately, through steaming and reshaping, especially after a rain, the top of the crown has shrunk and tapered somewhat, and my home attempts at reblocking have only been helpful in the lower half of the crown, which can make the hat appear deformed if you're not careful.

Also, the wool felt has a coarser finish and does indeed attract dust and pet hair far more noticeably than my fur felts.

Here it was new:

Here it is now:

I suppose it's not that dramatic of a change, but it's enough that I obsess over it sometimes.
Fur felts, though usually less stiff and less thick, seem to require far less attention, especially when dealing with weather.

 

[newturnofphrase]

It's still a fine looking hat, Bowlerman. In the photo, I didn't notice any of the flaws you mentioned. Still quite an excellent bowler.

Christys hats are a very specific style, with a fairly flat, understated brim curl (though it's the closest to the classic brim curl i've found available at that price point). The big advantage is that the brim binding is very traditional looking, and is hand sewn, so you don't see any machine stitching on it. The hat block they use is also the slightly squarish shape you see on a lot of British icons (clockwork orange, the homepride guy etc.). They have a low crown, but the felt is so stiff that if you rap the top of one it sounds like knocking on a door. For the classic British style bowlers, Lock makes basically the same hat (it's possible they make them at the same factory, and lock just buys them from Christys) but they charge over twice as much, and Patey makes a truly traditional goss shell hat for even more (though I'm not huge on the Patey brim curl).

 

[alanfgag]

Stetson Premier Quality Featherweight Derby

Not a featherweight in the Borsalino sense, this rings in at 4.6 ounces... a tad less than the other derbies in my collection. My 1920s unlined, ventilated Stetson (also from a store in New York's capitol region) is slightly lighter. The crown felt is exceptionally thin and very flexible - it yields to a light touch. I will try to steam and smooth the crown, which has a subtle bell shape. The hat is in remarkably good condition. There is a thin scratch (perhaps a repaired cut) above the bow. Advertised by the seller as 7 1/2, it is a 7 1/8.

 

[alanfgag]

 

[delectans]

A very fine derby, Alan. I suspected from the dimensions the seller provided me that the hat is really a 7-1/8, Long Oval. Looks to fit you very well!

 

[The Wiser Hatter]

Alan,it is in great condition that sweatlooks new.

 

[mayserwegener]

Alan, That is a really beautiful Derby! The profile is fantastic!

 

[Chepstow]

Alan, That is a really beautiful Derby! The profile is fantastic!

+1

 

[alanfgag]

Thank you, Al, Ed, Steve. The condition is very fine. I've never seen a stiff formed hat with such thin felt... about as rigid as a shirt cardboard, though it is hardly a "lightweight." I wonder if derbies were ever made from two ounce felt? Probably not practical to hold the shape, I guess.

 

[Joshbru3]

The dimensions are just fantastic, Alan! I can't get over how well the hat has lasted through the years, its condition is spectacular! The premier quality liners have to be my favorite early Stetson liner besides the 2 exposition medal liners. As always, the Derby looks wonderful on your head!

Have you steamed the hat yet? I have Derbies that are thin but when I received them also had that "shirt cardboard" rigidity. A good steaming made them stiff as a board even though the felt thickness didn't change. Its a possibly that might happen with this hat as well. I wonder why the hat has a "featherweight" designation. The couple lightweight Stetson Derbies that I have do not have liners and only one has a tip sticker.

 

[delectans]

I've never seen a stiff formed hat with such thin felt... about as rigid as a shirt cardboard, though it is hardly a "lightweight." I wonder if derbies were ever made from two ounce felt? Probably not practical to hold the shape, I guess.

1911:

Derbies were definitely available in myriad weights and finishes back in the day. My two C & K derbies both have extremely thin and flexible felt, and yet are distinctly different. As can be seen from this very informative ad which buler posted a while back, C & K derbies were made in six grades of thickness/stiffness, from 'Filament Flexible '(your 2 oz. derby, perhaps?) to 'Parchment Stiff ', in 1911.

My guess is that the unlined derbies would generally employ thinner and more flexibly finished felt. Unfortunately, it seems C & K did not specifically identify the weight grade on the sweatband, as Stetson appears to have done on your derby.