The Bowler or Derby Hat

[The Wiser Hatter]

Al yes I hope to pick one up one day.What I love is the difference. Sort of like when I sit my Disney hats next to my Mallory hats. You can see the difference in the blocks used on the hat as well as the curve of the brim. each hat maker hat their own blocks.

 

[mayserwegener]

Steve: I appreciate your kind remarks, thank you. Love your Brüder Böhm Melone. Can you clarify why the name used is 'Brüder' versus 'Gebrüder'? An expedient contraction, perhaps? Your Hut-Schick Melone is incredible as well.

Al, Thanks! I have no idea why 'Brüder' versus 'Gebrüder' so I checked online. It appears Gebrüder would be all brothers Böhm. Brüder in this case would be brothers Bernhard and Naphtali who formed the company. Maybe a native speaker (Manfred, Mario, Dieter ) can verify / clarify?

 

[Chepstow]

Al, Thanks! I have no idea why 'Brüder' versus 'Gebrüder' so I checked online. It appears Gebrüder would be all brothers Böhm. Brüder in this case would be brothers Bernhard and Naphtali who formed the company. Maybe a native speaker (Manfred, Mario, Dieter ) can verify / clarify?

Al, Steve This could be help. In English Brothers Grimm and Brothers Grimm no difference in the pronunciation

Why do you say "Gebrüder Grimm" and not "Brüder Grimm"?

The public is the archaic term "Gebrüder Grimm" indeed more popular than the simpler version of "Brüder Grimm". However, most Germanists use the word "brothers". Also, the Grimms themselves preferred the term.

This may be because they wanted to avoid the association of company names. For "Gebrüder" was about 100 years, 1850-1950, a very common word in company name.

The meanings of words in any case allow the use of both words. And as far back as Jacob Grimm (1785-1863) and Wilhelm Grimm (1786-1859) were both applied to them.

The Grimms' German Dictionary "shares at the beginning of the article" Gebrüder "with that this is an old, emphasizing the unity of plural formation" Brüder ". Regarding the relationships there are between "Gebrüder" and "Brüder" no difference, and also a highlight of two brothers over the other siblings in the word's meaning is not created. It can also act well by three, four or more "brothers".

 

[mayserwegener]

Thanks for the clarification. The info I presented came from a discussion relating to the Brothers Grimm. Interesting the Böhm's went with "Brüder" for their company (1848) name.

 

[delectans]

Many thanks for the illuminating discussion, Chepstow. Perhaps then, the use of 'Brüder' was an intentional means of conveying a less formal, more progressive, familiar and accessible tone to the company name than the traditional and pedantic 'Gebrüder'.

 

[Chepstow]

Thanks for the clarification. The info I presented came from a discussion relating to the Brothers Grimm. Interesting the Böhm's went with "Brüder" for their company (1848) name.

Nothink to Thank, Al , Steve. Nice I could help.

 

[Joshbru3]

Late 1890's/Early 1900's Champion Hat Derby (Keith Brothers & Co) (Chicago)

Here's an advertisement for Keith Brothers & Co (1898) which shows the "Champion" logo if you look close. Out of all the American Hatter publications, there is only several mentions of this brand and only 1898 had any actual advertisements. I do have a couple more besides this one.

 

[TheRomanhistorian]

Hello everyone!

I'm a bit new here but I saw you had a thread on bowlers (my favourite hat ever since I was a kid growing up in E. Washington and N. Idaho). I finally managed to acquire one and it is a Christys' black bowler (I've pondered a brown one for use with my brown tweed suits) which I wear with my navy and grey suits. I apologise for the poor picture quality and lighting but here is a photo:

The curl reminds me quite a lot of Captain Mainwaring from Dad's Army (when he's in his banker's uniform) and the hat draws me a lot of compliments (and odd stares, I do live in the Seattle area and the combination of hat and three piece tweed suits does draw attention). Usually, it's quite positive since women will often say how nice the hat looks and once, whilst I was attending a Mass, a young woman and her mother remarked on how 'dapper' I looked. I should probably find more reasons to wear it!

 

[newturnofphrase]

Hello everyone!

I'm a bit new here but I saw you had a thread on bowlers (my favourite hat ever since I was a kid growing up in E. Washington and N. Idaho). I finally managed to acquire one and it is a Christy's black bowler (I've pondered a brown one for use with my brown tweed suits) which I wear with my navy and grey suits.

The curl reminds me quite a lot of Captain Mainwaring from Dad's Army (when he's in his banker's uniform) and the hat draws me a lot of compliments (and odd stares, I do live in the Seattle area and the combination of hat and three piece tweed suits does draw attention). Usually, it's quite positive since women will often say how nice the hat looks and once, whilst I was attending a Mass, a young woman and her mother remarked on how 'dapper' I looked. I should probably find more reasons to wear it!

Is that a new Christys' Bowler (as in, not vintage)? I recently purchased a new one myself, I was really pleased with the stylish brim curl and the quality of the felt/brim binding. Looks great on you man! Bringing it back...

 

[TheRomanhistorian]

Hi newturnofphrase,

It is indeed a new Christys . Whilst I can appreciate a vintage hat I am just not keen on wearing a vintage hat (I like the process of having it mould to my own head when new). I've had it for a year now and it is my most formal hat (I don't own a homburg yet nor would I have many occasions to wear it since most of my suits are tweed and I only have three city suits). I'm pondering a brown bowler from Christys, too but I have no clue how often I'd wear that. Still, how can one go wrong with more bowlers?

 

[newturnofphrase]

Hi newturnofphrase,

It is indeed a new Christy's. Whilst I can appreciate a vintage hat I am just not keen on wearing a vintage hat (I like the process of having it mould to my own head when new). I've had it for a year now and it is my most formal hat (I don't own a homburg yet nor would I have many occasions to wear it since most of my suits are tweed and I only have three city suits). I'm pondering a brown bowler from Christy's, too but I have no clue how often I'd wear that. Still, how can one go wrong with more bowlers?

you can't. It is indeed a great hat, and I recommend it for anyone who has a larger head size and doesn't want to shell out for a hit-or-miss ebay hat. The felt is extremely stiff, and the style is as good as Lock at a fraction of the price. Another reason to get a new Christys Bowler is that it's a bit more contemporary looking with a low crown and small brim, than high crowned older styles.

Did you get the fur or the wool, and if the wool, how stiff is the felt? I got a fur felt one as the price difference was relatively minor and fur felt attracts less dust.

 

[TheRomanhistorian]

I got the fur, if memory serves. I picked it up from a UK retailer online last year and it was a good stiff fur felt. I wonder what the difference is between the wool and fur felt. The retailer I purchased it from didn't really have any options besides fur felt (this was the standard model, not the Devon riding bowler which I hope to buy one day). I like the shorter crown, I've never been keen on some of the models with a very high crown.

I'll let you know if I pick up the brown Christys bowler. I believe that and the grey are wool felt and I've often wondered what the difference must feel like.

 

[newturnofphrase]

I got the fur, if memory serves. I picked it up from a UK retailer online last year and it was a good stiff fur felt. I wonder what the difference is between the wool and fur felt. The retailer I purchased it from didn't really have any options besides fur felt (this was the standard model, not the Devon riding bowler which I hope to buy one day). I like the shorter crown, I've never been keen on some of the models with a very high crown.

I'll let you know if I pick up the brown Christy's bowler. I believe that and the grey are wool felt and I've often wondered what the difference must feel like.

My understanding (from reading about the difference and having owned both fur and wool felt hats) is that fur felt is denser and thus more durable and long lasting. It is also more aesthetically pleasing relative to wool, with a smoother finish.

 

[RichardH]

Here's my new Moores bowler hat, It's a size 7 1/2 & 1/16th (weird sizing), it's fairly rigid, you can dent the crown with some effort, but it's not as soft as the "fashion" bowlers we see today. Anyone got an idea about how old this one is?




The images are clickable..

 

[newturnofphrase]

The "Tween" hat refers to the size being inbeTWEEN 7 1/2 and 7 5/8. This was a bit of a gimmick but it allowed them to sell a lot more hats. Your model looks like 1930s-1950s era. Try not to dent it at all, it's a Bowler!

Here's a link to some useful info I found on Moore's hats:
http://www.pittdixon.go-plus.net/denton/moores.htm

 

[RichardH]

The "Tween" hat refers to the size being inbeTWEEN 7 1/2 and 7 5/8. This was a bit of a gimmick but it allowed them to sell a lot more hats. Your model looks like 1930s-1950s era. Try not to dent it at all, it's a Bowler!

Here's a link to some useful info I found on Moore's hats:
http://www.pittdixon.go-plus.net/denton/moores.htm

Thanks a lot! Heh, I may end up not keeping it, I want a smaller brimmed bowler. But since I just got it, I'm going to give it some time, maybe I'll feel different about it in a month.

 

[bowlerman]

My dark moss/ wide Petersham ribbon bowler (Baron Hats) was made for my buzzed head a few years ago, and all attempts to stretch it with a hat jack have ended up deforming the crown where the jack ends. I found this earlier today, and I have to say already that the wider form makes all the difference in the world!

 

[newturnofphrase]

Here's a Dunn & Co bowler I bought. It came yesterday in the mail. Took a gamble on this eBay sale as it didn't feature many photos and the description was sparse: http://www.ebay.com/itm/350511830577?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649#ht_852wt_1189

Glad I did, as it takes the cake as the best quality bowler I've owned or seen in person. I'm not sure of the date, but it's very fine, extremely high quality fur felt. Quite stiff felt, but also very light. The sweatband is magnificent. It was pretty dusty, but after I cleaned it off it appeared to be incredibly well made and in excellent condition, such that you can still see a slight spiral pattern to nap of the fur felt. Given the brim curl and crown height, I thought it might be from mid-20th century, but it might be later (definitely not earlier than the 1940s). Anyone know much about the changing Dunn labels? Anyway this one was clearly top of the line, and it fits quite comfortably on me at a British size 7 1/2 or 7 5/8 US.

 

[Chepstow]

That's a very fine hat that you won, newturnofphrase It looks great.

 

[newturnofphrase]

Thanks a lot! It was a risky buy, but it turned out to be good. Also, it's nice to know the money I spent went to charity.