The Bowler or Derby Hat

[Lt.hats]

Maurice L Rothschild bowler

Hello everyone, I've been looking at getting a bowler for a little while now and found this beauty online. (I also posted it on the new hat forum) It is my first vintage bowler and 2nd bowler all told, but I will definitely be adding a few more to my collection.

The seller advertised it as circa 1906, but after doing some quick research online and on the hatted professors website (thank you Brad Bowers!) I researched the union label . Based on the label it could not have been manufactured until 1934 as that is when the United Hatters, Cap & Millinery union was formed. Does anyone have any suggestions as to its age? I am thinking that based on the four dollar price tag it is probably 1934 to 1942 from some of the advertisements I found for Rothschild hats in old newspapers. (the attached advertisement was from 1937, and I am assuming that A Rothschild hat is a Maurice L. Rothschild hat).


I was hoping to get some advice on getting the brim repaired as there is a small bit of damage on the front. Also, is it possible to stretch out a bowler like other fur hats or will I damage it if I try? (it's a 7 5/8 but it is seem to be closer to a 7 1/2)

BTW, Thanks everyone for all the information that you have already put out there, it really helps us new members!

 

[1mach1]

Lt...:eusa_clap

 

[Lt.hats]

Thanks Harv! its a bit tight, but I am wearing this baby to work tomorrow.

 

[mayserwegener]

Fantastic! Stiff felts are fun to wear!

 

[splintercellsz]

Looks great!!

 

[KingAndrew]

I don't believe that stretching works very well on stiff felts like bowlers. I've heard that cracking may result. Others on this thread would have more experience than I do, however.

 

[mayserwegener]

Many old ones were conformed. If you soften the felt with steam (be very careful) you might get it to fit better. If you go too far you will cause brim distortion and possibly cracking.

 

[mayserwegener]

Carl Zeumer Magazin Zum PFAU, Pfau-Hut, size 58cm, 156 grams, probably 1920s. It could be a Fur - Wool blend. It wears very soft + light and is in very good condition. Not sure what company made it for Carl Zeumer Magazin Zum PFAU. There is a paper label on the backside of the sweatband but not worth taking a chance of damaging the sweatband to check.

 

[Brad Bowers]

Sweet!

 

[bowlerman]

Oh yeah, Steve, that is pretty!

On o the reasons I don't wear bowlers that often anymore is precisely the conforming issue. Softer hats are much better if your blood pressure rises, or you get a headache, or hair growth. For a vintage bowler, the oval better be almost the same as mine or it becomes kind of a chore to me.

I'm still interested in commissioning one eventually in a western style from Mike Moore or David at d bar j. Every time I think I have the funds, something in my house breaks or we start adding extra curricular activities for my kids. Obviously that's the priority, of course!

Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk 2

 

[mayserwegener]

Brad, Jeff, Thanks!

What is interesting is the one I just posted is on the soft side. It actually wears more like a soft felt. It's a lower price point hat but it feels great on the top of my head. The problem is you can't tell the amount stiffness or weight from photos.

 

[splintercellsz]

Beautiful acquisition, Steve!

 

[mayserwegener]

Justin, Thanks!

 

[Leacock]

I acquired a Bowler hat whilst in England this spring which I am inordinately proud of, I'm wondering if someone could help me identify the manufacturer? On the inside there are the initials DH with a Top Hat.

 

[Brad Bowers]

Lo and Behold, this Knapp-Felt De Luxe Derby showed up as a BIN for $80, so I jumped at it. It clearly shows that after the shop at 244 Fifth Avenue opened, the Dobbs crest had not yet morphed into the standard crest with the border outline and the different typeface. It is basically a reworking of the original crest updating the street number.
View attachment 15618
Until the 244 lone address shows up, we'll have to figure that the crest didn't change until after the addition of 620 Fifth Avenue in 1917:
View attachment 15619

It has a top hat band on it instead of a Derby ribbon. It's not tacked down, but fits well. I can't tell if there was ever a previous ribbon, or if this is original for some unknown reason.
View attachment 15613 View attachment 15614 View attachment 15615


Vellum Finish, as on my 1906-1909 Knapp-Felt De Luxe.
View attachment 15616

The Duplicate number is now on the same factory label as the block and size.
View attachment 15617

Brad

 

[mayserwegener]

Super! The Top Hat band is very unique.

 

[Lensmaster]

I presently only own 1 bowler and I only wear the aforementioned bowler when I wear a suit, never with simply a blazer and trousers.
The bowler to me feels more of a formal look where a fedora can be worn with anything a wearer wishes to wear...
I actual enjoy wearing my bowler simply because I feel it is quit unique and I must add quit stylish... On a side note, I have yet to encounter anyone sporting a bowler, or a Homburg for that matter... May be when they start making cheap looking wool models of each I will see some out there. LOL-- I plan to add one more to my collection either a gray or brown, currently have black.
My .02

Regards
CCJ

A couple years ago while working at a fast food place a young customer about 21 years old came in wearing a bowler. I asked him about it. He and some friends were up north in Michigan and stopped into a souvenir shop that had some relatively cheap wool hats. The tried some on as a joke and when he put on a bowler he was surprised that he liked the look. he bought it hand had been wearing it around for several weeks. It looked good on him for a cheap hat. I'm hoping he became a hat fan from that experience.

 

[Brad Bowers]

Latest acquisition: an old UPI photo from October 1958 of Bernard Salesky, President of Hat Corporation of America. The Salesky Bros., Bernard, Charles, David, and Joseph, owners of Champ Hats, came to control Hat Corporation of America in 1955 and merged Champ into HCA a year later. Bernard was the first Salesky to serve as president of HCA, from 1955 to 1962. Charles took over the presidency after that.

This photo shows HCA's hopes for a revival of the Derby, which did happen in primarily in 1959, though it continued into 1960 at least. I suspect much of the marketing emphasis driving the revival came from Salesky and HCA, but only have newspaper articles that hint at it.

Brad

 

[alanfgag]

Neat artifact Brad.

Have you handled many of the revival era derbies? I've had only one - a Stetson circa 1960. The hat has a derby block, but it is not a stiff hat and can assume a center dent as easily as a homburg. I'm wondering if this is a common thread on revival hats, or were some formed to be stiff in the manner of their earlier cousins?

 

[Brad Bowers]

Thanks, Alan.

I have a Cavanagh from the revival period, and it is much softer than their earlier cousins. That was by design, however, sort of an "improvement" for a consumer of modern sensibilities. Some, indeed, were designed to creased if desired, so that one could have what the manufacturers termed a Demi-Bowler. They also were some of the lowest-crowned Derbies of the twentieth century.

While I haven't seen one in person, the current Stetson Derbies seem to be direct descendants of the 1959 Revival versions.

I'm ready for a new Derby Revival.

Brad