The Bowler or Derby Hat

[ManofKent]

Beautiful Jeff

 

[John Galt]

My favorite bowler so far Bowlerman. I'll give you $20.00 for it!

 

[bowlerman]

Thanks guys! I'm psyched about this one. Truth be told, I just don't like wearing black bowlers very much most of the time. Other colors excite me!

John Galt, I'll let you know if I get to that point.

 

[John Galt]

Thanks! It would be the lightest stiff felt on the FL. Manfred's Rehfus & Cie ZEPHIR Melone (German) is marked 70 grams (2.5 ounces) but that is the hat body weight. The overall weight with liner is about 115 grams (4.0 ounces) which is super light for a stiff fur felt hat. I have a wool Negretti Melone (German) that is about the same weight.

Rehfus & Cie ZEPHIR

http://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/20-rehfus-federleicht/#entry605

OK, here's the weigh-in:

Hat body, including hatband and wooden reed:

3 1/4 oz - 94 grams



With the sweat (needs to be sewn back in):

3 3/4 oz - 108 grams



John

 

[mayserwegener]

Thanks! Yours is the lightest so far but I am not sure how much weight a liner would add. What size is it? I believe Manfred's Rehfus & Cie ZEPHIR is a 56cm and my Negretti Wool is just over 58cm. Both have liners.

 

[John Galt]

It is size 7, I believe. I will check. It was made without a liner, and has a stamp or sticker in the crown.

 

[splintercellsz]

For liner weight, can't you just take a liner out of a hat (if it has come out previously, don't go wrecking them now), and see how much it weighs? If possible, do a few more to see an average weight, and go from there?

 

[mayserwegener]

Thanks! I actually have a couple stiff felts with both liners and crown tip patches.

 

[OldCotton]

Hi, everyone. New kid here looking for some advice on getting into collecting bowlers and any advice provided would be most appreciative.

 

[splintercellsz]

What would you like to know about collecting Derbys, bud? Also, welcome to the lounge!

 

[mayserwegener]

For liner weight, can't you just take a liner out of a hat (if it has come out previously, don't go wrecking them now), and see how much it weighs? If possible, do a few more to see an average weight, and go from there?

Good idea! I measured a stiff felt liner weight and it was 16 grams (.56 ounces) so the German Melonen are probably slightly lighter.

 

[OldCotton]

What would you like to know about collecting Derbys, bud? Also, welcome to the lounge!

What should I be looking for in terms of condition and quality when searching for a vintage bowler on places like esty.com or ebay? Also, how do you guys come across such sweet finds on vintage bowlers, around here it's like finding a needle in a hay stack.

 

[splintercellsz]

Well, for condition, make sure cracks and breaks are minimal, same with brim binding being torn. Also, the brim can seperate from the crown, so look out for that on old derbys. If you don't care much for condition, and like the worn look, those can be found for a song. It all depends on head size though. Needle in a haystacks do happen. When I started, I always wanted to find a vintage long-hair velour hat, and had a tough time with that. Now I have four. It takes patience, but they are out there

On ebay, you can always look through here: http://www.ebay.com/sch/Derby-Bowler-/163622/i.html

For etsy, just search for "Vintage derby bowler hat".

 

[ManofKent]

Justin's advice is excellent.

From a UK perspective just a few points:

On ebay.co.uk bowlers are common place although whatever search term you use will pull up a lot of modern bowlers, frequently listed as 'vintage style' that you'll have to wade through. Most of these are very cheap and generally nasty wool hats (to be fair the Christy's wool bowlers aren't bad). In the UK derby is rarely used.

Of the real vintage bowlers most will be very small sized (and on't forget a US 7 1/8 is equivalent to a UK 7 and so forth). If you've got a smaller head you'll have plenty of choice - UK 7 and 6 7/8ths are very common. Larger sizes are comparatively rare. Bowlers frequently came without an affixed size label so sellers may provide measurements -check how they measured it, and check against hats you own (side to side and front to back is commonly given).

There were few poor manufacturers of bowlers in the 60's and earlier - Dunn, Christy's, Battersby, Lincoln-Bennett, Woodrow, Failsworth etc. all produced nice hats.

If you search on the UK site and they only advertise as shipping to the UK it's worth contacting the seller to see whether they'll ship overseas. If you're happy to pay Royal Mail's extortionate postage costs (prepare to be shocked) most sellers tend to oblige.

Good luck.

Oh and if you come across UK 7 1/2's in nice condition leave them for me

 

[bowlerman]

Justin and MOK have provided great advice!

Patience is key, but particularly difficult if you don't know exactly what you're looking at. The only thing I'd add is it's always a gamble on the internet. The most common hidden problem I have with bowlers is that the threads holding the sweatband on are often simply too old and just about to disintegrate, like perforated paper, even if they appear to be all intact. It's hard for a seller to know this, of course.

I've acquired some true gems, and a lot of... historical pieces... along the way.

 

[OldCotton]

Thanks guys for the warm welcome and the knowledge you have graciously shared. I have been looking at etsys and ebay for those vintage bowlers. But it seems slim pickings for some one with a larger hat size which i am a 7 3/8, but I will stay on the hunt till something catches my eye.

 

[splintercellsz]

Apologies to anyone who is watching or bidding on these

I found this one. They are asking a little much, but it is a great Expo Medal Derby (1915-1925).
http://www.etsy.com/listing/8289911.../8&ga_original_query=2&ga_search_type=vintage

This one is a bit damaged

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DP-vintage-...547?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c33cfb4d3

 

[OldCotton]

Splinter<

I was looking at the one you have listed for Etsy, but i was afraid I would be paying too much considering the asking price. Now that you mention that they are asking a little much for it, what would be a good going price for a bowler such as this in this condition?

 

[ofcoursemyhorse]

On ebay, you shouldnt pay more than $50 for an intact bowler in good to excellent condition. I believe they should sell for more, just because they are lovely hats, but as others have pointed out to me, Bowlers arent a tremendously popular to wear and because collectors satisfy themselves only going after the rarest ones.

Ebay UK has an even more plentiful selection and english hatmakers continued to make bowlers the proper way after blind brim stitching became a forgotten art stateside.

 

[Denton]

The market may be somewhat more competitive for bowlers in 7 3/8, but $50 is a reasonable limit nonetheless. (I have sometimes gone higher than that.)

Another thing to keep in mind is that sizing with bowlers can be less forgiving than with soft felts. You can use steam to adjust the oval, but not the circumference.