The Bowler or Derby Hat

[Steve1857]

@Mark Brody , thanks for the added photos. You are so doing the right thing: finding out what style is best for you, the hat, and the one that you want.

The folks on the FL are full of good advice and very non-judgemental. Looks like you've found a nice first Bowler, especially in that colour.

Looking forward to seeing how you decide to re-create it.

 

[DaveProc]

From an ad posted by @DaveProc over in the "Newspaper Ads" thread. The colors! Anyone know what color Napoleon was?

Bob, I believe that Napolean is black with blue tint or a dark blue that is almost black.

 

[Rmccamey]

A very nice way to enter the Bowler club, Mark. Browns and greys are much less common than blacks. Yours looks to be a good modern version reminiscent of my Resistol (also a modern hat, relatively speaking).


Without digging all of mine out of boxes, I'd guess about half of my 20s-40s bowlers have bows with frayed rear edges, so it must have been a "thing" in that period. With some exceptions, bowlers have 1 inch ribbons as a standard but I, too, am considering a wider ribbon on my next custom. As Steve @Steve1857 mentioned, steam and pull the side brims up tends to give bowlers a more "western" look.


Here is the bow on my custom grey from Northwest Hats. I wanted something a little different.


And an old beater Stetson I had a few years ago...


Again, welcome to the club, Mark, we need more bowler brothers!
Crofut & Knapp


Kaller bowler (from Austria, as I recall).


Ps: Wear your bowler proudly. I get more compliments on my bowlers than all the other hats I own put together!
Borsalino Fu Lazzaro from Italy.

Ask, and you shall receive. I’m sure the quality is not at the same level as many of yours (again, that bow...), but as this was originally going to be just a costume hat, I was happy to find one at this price that wasn’t made of wool.

I know bowlers tend to have narrower ribbons than fedoras sometimes have - honestly, fedora’s are all over the place. At the same time, I’ve found a few historical photos that appear to have ribbon’s slightly wider than what came on mine. If I had to guess, I’d say it’s 1 1/4”. As far as the brim curl is concerned, my head is a long oval, and I reshaped the crown slightly over the tea kettle to make it fit better. This had the side effect of exaggerating the brim’s curl, so it’s a little more pronounced now than when I took that photo.

 

[Steve1857]

A big thanks to Joe @Blare for putting me on to this one. A "rare" Wormser Bowler. I love everything about the quality of this one, from the hand of the felt, to the pleated liner, the inside bow, and the soft nature of the leather of the sweat band. The shape is more English Bowler like than American Derby, imo.

It's so comfortable to wear, too.

 

[Blare]

A big thanks to Joe @Blare for putting me on to this one. A "rare" Wormser Bowler. I love everything about the quality of this one, from the hand of the felt, to the pleated liner, the inside bow, and the soft nature of the leather of the sweat band. The shape is more English Bowler like than American Derby, imo.

It's so comfortable to wear, too. View attachment 322502 View attachment 322503 View attachment 322504 View attachment 322506 View attachment 322507

Loving it more and more Steve

 

[Steve1857]

Thanks. Me too, Joe.

Loving it more and more Steve

 

[Rmccamey]

I'm jealous, Steve.

A big thanks to Joe @Blare for putting me on to this one. A "rare" Wormser Bowler. I love everything about the quality of this one, from the hand of the felt, to the pleated liner, the inside bow, and the soft nature of the leather of the sweat band. The shape is more English Bowler like than American Derby, imo.

It's so comfortable to wear, too. View attachment 322502 View attachment 322503 View attachment 322504 View attachment 322506 View attachment 322507

 

[Steve1857]

Thanks Randy, but remember, you have the fu Lazzaro

I'm jealous, Steve.

 

[Rmccamey]

I believe we are both winners!

Thanks Randy, but remember, you have the fu Lazzaro

 

[Steve1857]

Indeed we are

I believe we are both winners!

 

[Hurricane Jack]

Great Western Derby. From Hell on Wheels, & previously posted in the TV Hats thread. Maybe in this thread too; I don't recall.

 

[Rmccamey]

I've seen something similar called a coach derby.

Great Western Derby. From Hell on Wheels, & previously posted in the TV Hats thread. Maybe in this thread too; I don't recall.

View attachment 323048

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[Hurricane Jack]

I've seen something similar called a coach derby.

I always thought this was more the style of the Coachman's hat.

 

[Rmccamey]

I think you are correct on that hat. I can't find Dave's recent ad picture, but I was sure one like the main character there was referred to as a coach derby. Here is one of Dave's ad pictures that describes a Youman's derby - straight sides with softer shoulders and a slightly rounded top.

I always thought this was more the style of the Coachman's hat.

View attachment 323852

 

[Hurricane Jack]

I think you are correct on that hat. I can't find Dave's recent ad picture, but I was sure one like the main character there was referred to as a coach derby. Here is one of Dave's ad pictures that describes a Youman's derby - straight sides with softer shoulders and a slightly rounded top.

View attachment 323879

I think the Hell on Wheels hats were made by Knudsen & the territorial governors Derby was based on Knudsen's Bat Masterson. Maybe Jeff @bowlerman will weigh in. He has a Bat Masterson & also a D bar J Western Derby or two, I think.

 

[Hurricane Jack]

Hobo Riding the Rails

 

[steur]

A big thanks to Joe @Blare for putting me on to this one. A "rare" Wormser Bowler. I love everything about the quality of this one, from the hand of the felt, to the pleated liner, the inside bow, and the soft nature of the leather of the sweat band. The shape is more English Bowler like than American Derby, imo.

It's so comfortable to wear, too. View attachment 322502 View attachment 322503 View attachment 322504 View attachment 322506 View attachment 322507

That is a beautiful bowler, Steve. Nice catch.

 

[bowlerman]

Great Western Derby. From Hell on Wheels, & previously posted in the TV Hats thread. Maybe in this thread too; I don't recall.

View attachment 323048

View attachment 323049

I think the Hell on Wheels hats were made by Knudsen & the territorial governors Derby was based on Knudsen's Bat Masterson. Maybe Jeff @bowlerman will weigh in. He has a Bat Masterson & also a D bar J Western Derby or two, I think.

I distinctly remember that scene and that hat from Hell on Wheels. A real beauty. In my experience the closest nomenclature would be a Cambridge bowler, which is blocked tall, with straight sides and a slightly flatter top over some still gently rounded shoulders. Think Odd Job, maybe?

I'll see if I can find an old photo I saved of an old ad once, and I know D Bar J Hats has offered what they call a Cambridge derby in the past. Theirs is a little shorter and has a wider brim, but basically still fits the bill.

I've come to really prefer western derbies of various blocks and dimensions, with pencil curls. My Bat Masterson from Knudsen Hats goes more than

a little bit in this direction, but the HoW hat here seems to have more front and back taper in the crown, and a less pronounced pencil roll. It is a really stunning hat that they make, but looks almost nothing like the famous Bat Masterson hat from the old photos.

I bet Mike Moore at Buckaroo Hatters would be able to recreate exactly that, if you wanted him to. My Buckaroo Hatters derby is outstanding. It is a little lower crowned and more gently pencil rolled than most, which is what I asked for, and I love it, but he has a huge repertoire.

David Torres at Texas Hatters makes some of the best western hats in the business, and although they are not inexpensive, the turnaround time is quick and customer service is great, in my experience. I am positive he could recreate this one as well.

Knudsen Bat Masterson pictured. Mine is western weight wool, and the crown has settled a bit over time. I'd definitely buy it again in a fur felt.

 

[Hurricane Jack]

I distinctly remember that scene and that hat from Hell on Wheels. A real beauty. In my experience the closest nomenclature would be a Cambridge bowler, which is blocked tall, with straight sides and a slightly flatter top over some still gently rounded shoulders. Think Odd Job, maybe?

I'll see if I can find an old photo I saved of an old ad once, and I know D Bar J Hats has offered what they call a Cambridge derby in the past. Theirs is a little shorter and has a wider brim, but basically still fits the bill.

I've come to really prefer western derbies of various blocks and dimensions, with pencil curls. My Bat Masterson from Knudsen Hats goes more than View attachment 324090 a little bit in this direction, but the HoW hat here seems to have more front and back taper in the crown, and a less pronounced pencil roll. It is a really stunning hat that they make, but looks almost nothing like the famous Bat Masterson hat from the old photos.

I bet Mike Moore at Buckaroo Hatters would be able to recreate exactly that, if you wanted him to. My Buckaroo Hatters derby is outstanding. It is a little lower crowned and more gently pencil rolled than most, which is what I asked for, and I love it, but he has a huge repertoire.

David Torres at Texas Hatters makes some of the best western hats in the business, and although they are not inexpensive, the turnaround time is quick and customer service is great, in my experience. I am positive he could recreate this one as well.

Knudsen Bat Masterson pictured. Mine is western weight wool, and the crown has settled a bit over time. I'd definitely buy it again in a fur felt.

Thanks for that, Jeff. The current D bar J Western Derby with a 5" rounded crown needs more, I think. However I do like the brim.

 

[Rmccamey]

Excellent western bowlers, gentlemen! Mike Miller at Northwest does a great D'Orsay curl. I've been interested in a Cambridge bowler for a while, so maybe...

I distinctly remember that scene and that hat from Hell on Wheels. A real beauty. In my experience the closest nomenclature would be a Cambridge bowler, which is blocked tall, with straight sides and a slightly flatter top over some still gently rounded shoulders. Think Odd Job, maybe?

I'll see if I can find an old photo I saved of an old ad once, and I know D Bar J Hats has offered what they call a Cambridge derby in the past. Theirs is a little shorter and has a wider brim, but basically still fits the bill.

I've come to really prefer western derbies of various blocks and dimensions, with pencil curls. My Bat Masterson from Knudsen Hats goes more than View attachment 324090 a little bit in this direction, but the HoW hat here seems to have more front and back taper in the crown, and a less pronounced pencil roll. It is a really stunning hat that they make, but looks almost nothing like the famous Bat Masterson hat from the old photos.

I bet Mike Moore at Buckaroo Hatters would be able to recreate exactly that, if you wanted him to. My Buckaroo Hatters derby is outstanding. It is a little lower crowned and more gently pencil rolled than most, which is what I asked for, and I love it, but he has a huge repertoire.

David Torres at Texas Hatters makes some of the best western hats in the business, and although they are not inexpensive, the turnaround time is quick and customer service is great, in my experience. I am positive he could recreate this one as well.

Knudsen Bat Masterson pictured. Mine is western weight wool, and the crown has settled a bit over time. I'd definitely buy it again in a fur felt.

Thanks for that, Jeff. The current D bar J Western Derby with a 5" rounded crown needs more, I think. However I do like the brim.

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