Daniele Tanto
I'll Lock Up
- Messages
- 4,252
- Location
- Verona - Italia
I read with great interest the exchange of views on dating of Borsalino hats. I want to make some brief clarification in this regard. The oldest Italian hats I've seen, have a special feature: the internal label is pre-printed on paper and the data of the color and pattern are hand-written with a fountain pen. Borsalino have not a clear system whereby you can decipher the inner labels so you can only make assumptions.
Paratroopertim I’sorry but it is difficult to date your hat to the early 40. Italy is at war since June 10, 1940 and will remain belligerent until April 25, 1945. You see a fascist out with his wife and a similar model of hat? The hat in question is clearly a creation of 60-70 years. You can see from the typical form of Borsalino that, in those years, shortens the brims to become more attractive and follow a taste that has totally changed in Europe and in the United States is in the process of change.
Alan what you recognize: the fact that it is quite hard to find in the US market the products of Borsalino, before the Second World War, is a consequence that matches the taste and the different ways in which the hats are purchased and worn in the United States and in Europe. In the US there is a large representation (still is) that kind of hats, we Europeans defined western, here they do not exist. Your internal market was and is divided between these hats and those elegant and in twenty-thirties happens, looking at the photographs of the time, the transition in US where there is a greater diffusion of dress hats.
Borsalino exports to the United States during the fascist regime is not in my knowledge, so I can’t say for sure, but I think then the major markets of the “Casa di Alessandria” were Europeans. After World War II, the market Borsalino expands enormously in the United States, where the hats Italians are widely appreciated, but cost almost twice than those produced on site, for Borsalino politics "Hats top quality at high price" to which must be added the high import taxes, yet were massively imported into the US as super fine hats with great discontent of the American producers. There was also a great "invasion" of American tourists here in Italy in the post war years, and many of them brought home as a “souvenir d'Italie” the Borsalino rolled in small boxes (like those beautiful that you possess). They were (and are) aspired hats that cost less in Italy and occupied less space in the suitcase of a tourist, considered the magnificent felt with which they are made. Are rollable and pocketable, a priority in the Italian hat that has no counterpart in other parts of the world for reasons of construction and manner of dealing with the hats. These are the two main channels of entry in the United States of Borsalino after the end of the II WW.
For the purpose of better know the history of the Borsalino I posted a link http://www.isral.it/web/web/borsalino/menu.htm on this thread a few weeks ago where the Board of Directors of Borsalino from the year 1946 up to the 1970 trade talks in exports and relations with their biggest market : the United States of America. It can be an interesting read for understanding the "battle" protectionist operated by the US government and the resulting fears of the “Casa di Alessandria” for the turnover as the offer from the firm Stetson in 1960 even considered by the leaders of the Italian hat factory.
A final consideration on the availability of hats before World War II. In Europe, the war has passed like a huge scythe that has cut most of economy and civil society and the hats were, too, part of this destruction. Here in Italy is very hard to find hats of any manufacturer before the Second World War. In the United States, I think, the Italian hats of the 20s and 30s are very rare and often travelled with emigrants or visiting from relatives or arrived as early examples from export . Most of Borsalino sold in the United States and those brought by tourists belong mostly to the production starting in 1946.
Paratroopertim I’sorry but it is difficult to date your hat to the early 40. Italy is at war since June 10, 1940 and will remain belligerent until April 25, 1945. You see a fascist out with his wife and a similar model of hat? The hat in question is clearly a creation of 60-70 years. You can see from the typical form of Borsalino that, in those years, shortens the brims to become more attractive and follow a taste that has totally changed in Europe and in the United States is in the process of change.
Alan what you recognize: the fact that it is quite hard to find in the US market the products of Borsalino, before the Second World War, is a consequence that matches the taste and the different ways in which the hats are purchased and worn in the United States and in Europe. In the US there is a large representation (still is) that kind of hats, we Europeans defined western, here they do not exist. Your internal market was and is divided between these hats and those elegant and in twenty-thirties happens, looking at the photographs of the time, the transition in US where there is a greater diffusion of dress hats.
Borsalino exports to the United States during the fascist regime is not in my knowledge, so I can’t say for sure, but I think then the major markets of the “Casa di Alessandria” were Europeans. After World War II, the market Borsalino expands enormously in the United States, where the hats Italians are widely appreciated, but cost almost twice than those produced on site, for Borsalino politics "Hats top quality at high price" to which must be added the high import taxes, yet were massively imported into the US as super fine hats with great discontent of the American producers. There was also a great "invasion" of American tourists here in Italy in the post war years, and many of them brought home as a “souvenir d'Italie” the Borsalino rolled in small boxes (like those beautiful that you possess). They were (and are) aspired hats that cost less in Italy and occupied less space in the suitcase of a tourist, considered the magnificent felt with which they are made. Are rollable and pocketable, a priority in the Italian hat that has no counterpart in other parts of the world for reasons of construction and manner of dealing with the hats. These are the two main channels of entry in the United States of Borsalino after the end of the II WW.
For the purpose of better know the history of the Borsalino I posted a link http://www.isral.it/web/web/borsalino/menu.htm on this thread a few weeks ago where the Board of Directors of Borsalino from the year 1946 up to the 1970 trade talks in exports and relations with their biggest market : the United States of America. It can be an interesting read for understanding the "battle" protectionist operated by the US government and the resulting fears of the “Casa di Alessandria” for the turnover as the offer from the firm Stetson in 1960 even considered by the leaders of the Italian hat factory.
A final consideration on the availability of hats before World War II. In Europe, the war has passed like a huge scythe that has cut most of economy and civil society and the hats were, too, part of this destruction. Here in Italy is very hard to find hats of any manufacturer before the Second World War. In the United States, I think, the Italian hats of the 20s and 30s are very rare and often travelled with emigrants or visiting from relatives or arrived as early examples from export . Most of Borsalino sold in the United States and those brought by tourists belong mostly to the production starting in 1946.
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I have an early 1900s P. & C. Habig Wien Derby made for B. Altmans NY. If possible post photos of the collapsible Borsalino Top hat.
