The BORSALINO BROTHERHOOD

[hatsRme]

Just to be clear, we are talking about Dale's Borsa find being pre-war, correct? (Not paratroopertim?)

 

[alanfgag]

Correct in that Dale's is older, but not pre-war. That label is circa 1950 +- a bit. The black long hair Borsalino is 1960s or later.

 

[mayserwegener]

Just to be clear, we are talking about Dale's Borsa find being pre-war, correct? (Not paratroopertim?)

Yes Dale's but I would say early 50s or older.

 

[alanfgag]

One thing that puzzles me is the virtual absence of Borsalino hats from before WWII in the U.S. vintage marketplace. There has been speculation that the Vita-Felt introduction by Stetson might have been a nod to the opportunity that opened as the soft imported Borsalino hat disappeared during the war years. This would suggest that Borsalino had some presence in the U.S. market before the war. If so, where are all those pre-war Borsos? I have found only one possible candidate in my searches. Perhaps the distribution outside of Europe before the war was in fact very limited.

 

[dh66]

Thanks for all the input Alan and Steve.

Here is some writing on the inside of the sweat band, if it means anything.

And here is a sticker, bearing the same name imprinted on the sweatband of the store/importer. Maybe this had a price on it at one time.

And just for kicks, here is a pic of the taped seam at back of the sweat. I only just noticed this today.
Given what I paid for the hat, I couldn't be happier with it anyway, but having the opinion of guys whose knowledge I trust and respect that it is at least 1950s makes it all the better.

 

[mayserwegener]

It would be interesting to see Borsalino American sales numbers from 10s, 20s, 30s, 40s and 50s. I don't believe I have seen an American market Borsalino soft or stiff felt from the 20s or older. While not common you do see Austrian Velours and stiff felts.

 

[paratroopertim]

Thanks for name dropping hatsrme. I am new to this and just learning. I am going to be a great collector and just received 3 more beautiful hats all 3 are cervelt and gorgeous. I have been in this for a very short time and love a classy lid. It is just sad I cannot share them here and I am moving to another website that is much less critical. You have not showed me even a box nor manufacture tag that even resembles mine other than hearsay. Usually when someone is helping a new guy try to distinguish what he has they at least have one link ,one picture something to show me why this determination has been made. I have done the research myself and found this lid is not a $30 piece. Nobody has linked me to even to the box. In all reality I have not received any real information other than I think its from? When you can show me something that really makes me think twice about your opinion I will believe it. Dan was the only one with info I even took seriously.
I would love to see a Marshall field & co Borsalino just like mine if your so sure. To this point there is nothing I have seen nothing yet that tell me your answers have any validity. Post it up and let me eat my own words. I do not think my hat is valuable I just like it. I am not sure how old it is even with a trusted source telling me its from a certain date. I am trying to explore every avenue making sure so when my friends ask me when was it made I can say for sure. I wear my hats, I am not selling just show me something in pictures atleast that substantiate these claims and why. I was a lil discouraged seeing a post that all glued paper size labels were after 1960 {the little paper tab} below the ribbon. but come to find out there were a lot of older hats that carried these also and not just the cloth size tag. A link to the same hat is all I ask for so I know the info im being given isn't just I think so. Plus there are older hats that do not say borsalino on the manufacture tag. Correct in that.

 

[mayserwegener]

One thing that puzzles me is the virtual absence of Borsalino hats from before WWII in the U.S. vintage marketplace. There has been speculation that the Vita-Felt introduction by Stetson might have been a nod to the opportunity that opened as the soft imported Borsalino hat disappeared during the war years. This would suggest that Borsalino had some presence in the U.S. market before the war. If so, where are all those pre-war Borsos? I have found only one possible candidate in my searches. Perhaps the distribution outside of Europe before the war was in fact very limited.

Similar wavelength (see my post)! We have seen American market Austrian Velours by different makers (like your Oviatt A.P. Velour) but no Borsalinos (that I am aware of). I even have an early 1900 P & C. Habig Vienna stiff felt that was made for the American market.

 

[triple-d]

Nice one dh66..........definitely a keeper!! Congrats!! Great color and ribbon combo also!!:eusa_clap

 

[alanfgag]

I would love to see a Marshall field & co Borsalino just like mine if your so sure. To this point there is nothing I have seen nothing yet that tell me your answers have any validity.

Hi Tim... There is no offense intended. There is a very large amount of Borsalino knowledge and photos archived on this thread. Unfortunately, there is not an easy way to learn other than by paging through it. I don't have enough photos of your hat and its marks to show you an identical match. I suspect it shares much in common with the 1960s Diamante 25 that I once owned. Your hat box is similar to one that I have which is a little older but with the same motif. I've lost track of which hat arrived in it. Marshall Field sold many Borsalino Hats after the war. I've owned two velour hats that were purchased there in the late 1950s.

You are right that some Borsalino markings (paper size labels, for instance) were used at different times. I have not seen a Borsalino manufacturing label without the company name imprint prior to the early 1950s. And I am quite confident that Marshall Field was not selling or importing Borsalino hats while we were at war with Italy.

Enjoy your hat and buy lots of others. That is how most of us learn... and lose a bedroom or two in the process.

 

[dh66]

Thanks triple-d.

 

[rclark]

Borsalino Alessandria originally purchased from a department store in Dallas. This is the first Borsalino that I have seen from this part of the US. Mint condition. My only complaint is that the cord on the wind trolley is either stretched out or was made too long, so I had to double wrap it.

 

[mayserwegener]

Super find! Also new Old Stock condition! It's definitily from the 1960s!

 

[rclark]

Thanks Steve! I believe it was purchased no later than 1961, as that is the year that Sanger Bros merged with A. Harris & Co to form Sanger-Harris department store. I have a Stratoliner from A. Harris & Co as well so I have a sample from each store pre merger!

 

[carouselvic]

Wth??

 

[hatsRme]

Thanks for name dropping hatsrme. I am new to this and just learning. I am going to be a great collector and just received 3 more beautiful hats all 3 are cervelt and gorgeous. I have been in this for a very short time and love a classy lid. It is just sad I cannot share them here and I am moving to another website that is much less critical. You have not showed me even a box nor manufacture tag that even resembles mine other than hearsay. Usually when someone is helping a new guy try to distinguish what he has they at least have one link ,one picture something to show me why this determination has been made. I have done the research myself and found this lid is not a $30 piece. Nobody has linked me to even to the box. In all reality I have not received any real information other than I think its from? When you can show me something that really makes me think twice about your opinion I will believe it. Dan was the only one with info I even took seriously.
I would love to see a Marshall field & co Borsalino just like mine if your so sure. To this point there is nothing I have seen nothing yet that tell me your answers have any validity. Post it up and let me eat my own words. I do not think my hat is valuable I just like it. I am not sure how old it is even with a trusted source telling me its from a certain date. I am trying to explore every avenue making sure so when my friends ask me when was it made I can say for sure. I wear my hats, I am not selling just show me something in pictures atleast that substantiate these claims and why. I was a lil discouraged seeing a post that all glued paper size labels were after 1960 {the little paper tab} below the ribbon. but come to find out there were a lot of older hats that carried these also and not just the cloth size tag. A link to the same hat is all I ask for so I know the info im being given isn't just I think so. Plus there are older hats that do not say borsalino on the manufacture tag. Correct in that.

APOLOGIES, Tim! Absolutely no criticism meant, sir. We're only talking HATS here my friend, and we're ALL just learning.

With the copious photos contained throughout these pages, you might find pictures of something similar to quell your curiosity. Moreover (and of tremendous value, IMHO) were the opinions of guys who KNOW from experience. Besdor, the largest retailer of Borsalinos in the US, maybe worldwide, has been selling them his entire life, with his father doing it before him. (Correct me if I'm wrong, please, Steve.) The other comments posted were also from people that have been focused on the details of old hats, including Borsas, for a long time. The opinions were all in the 1960s or newer. You somehow concluded that the hat was early 1940s. I only asked why you felt that way. Sorry about that! I hope we're good, and that you can give us another chance.

"Good advice is never worth as much to a man as a good scare."

-- Unknown

 

[triple-d]

Rick.......super nice!!!! Couldn't be any better!!:eusa_clap

 

[dh66]

Great find RClark. That thing is in amazing shape.
The shot of the liner is pretty consistent with the inside of the one I recently scored. The biggest difference I see is that the background of the oval logo in the crown of yours is brown, whereas it's blue in mine. It's interesting to me that in both our hats, imprinted above the store name is 'imported by' in the same font.
What is the brim width on yours? I only just now noticed, when I looked at it again, that mine says Alessandria in the liner. Most I've seen identified as such here on the lounge have been thin ribboned, like yours. I wonder if the one I have was re-furbed at some point? The knot on the bow is really fancy, with a lot of pleats, and it never struck me as an aftermarket item until now.
Either way, sorry to ramble. That's a really cool hat. You have an enviable collection.

 

[triple-d]

Gotta say.....not only is their a wealth of knowledge and experience on here, it's also a group that goes out of their way to help and share their knowledge. Most often, their efforts are above and beyond the call of duty.

 

[1mach1]

Borsalino Alessandria originally purchased from a department store in Dallas. This is the first Borsalino that I have seen from this part of the US. Mint condition. My only complaint is that the cord on the wind trolley is either stretched out or was made too long, so I had to double wrap it.

Looks great, Rick! Interestingly enough, I had to wrap my wind cord around twice on my Alessandria as well, which is darn near the same color!