The BORSALINO BROTHERHOOD

[Dreispitz]

http://images.google.com/imgres?img...no&um=1&hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&tbs=isch:1

Sounds like they need a good mediator .... hm, I would not mind doing it Expert determination, too lol lol lol :whip:

 

[Scott Wood]

Mario, and others,

I would like to put forward the following hypothesis for discussion:

- Borsalino's produced for the US-market and from, say, the post-war period have the non-reeded sweat with the corrugation.

- Borsalino's produced for the European market from the same period are reeded, and never have the corrugation. (Nb. I am at the office at the moment. I am sure about the pre-sale blocked Borsalino's in my collection being reeded, but not about the Borsalino's that came folded in the triangular boxes. I will fill in this part of the hypothesis later on.)

Any insights?

My XXXXX Marque Grand Luxe first sold in Naples has an almost identical sweat to the 5X above, only difference is the address of the shop and the liner. (colour etc lol)

 

[Bantam Man]

Borsalino's for the Euro vs. the US market

Most, but not all. Check out the green hat Lefty just posted.

Thanks everyone, for sharing knowledge and for refining the hypothesis.

Lefty's green U.S. Borsalino is non-reeded, but indeed misses the corrugation. Perhaps the explanation for the corrugation has to do with the thickness of the felt?

In addition to my previous message: the follable Euro Borsalino's are reeded. Dreispitz, perhaps the hat of which you posted an image is an exception to the Euro=reeded-rule because of its material?

Perhaps we can bring this further, step by step.

 

[Scott Wood]

Thanks everyone, for sharing knowledge and for refining the hypothesis.

Lefty's green U.S. Borsalino is non-reeded, but indeed misses the corrugation. Perhaps the explanation for the corrugation has to do with the thickness of the felt?

In addition to my previous message: the follable Euro Borsalino's are reeded. Dreispitz, perhaps the hat of which you posted an image is an exception to the Euro=reeded-rule because of its material?

Perhaps we can bring this further, step by step.

Here's another pic of the inside of that 5X Borso.

Closest we can figure is early 40s and it was sold in Naples... Salvatore Balbi 260, Via Chiaia Napoli

 

[Bantam Man]

XXXXX Marque Grand Luxe

Here's another pic of the inside of that 5X Borso.
...
Closest we can figure is early 40s and it was sold in Naples... Salvatore Balbi 260, Via Chiaia Napoli

Thanks Scott,

May I ask what makes you definite about early 40s as the date?

I have a number of hats from the Balbi shop too. As we know from an older thread, hat shops ("cappellaria") could choose between different liners. Balbi continuously used the "Marque Grand Luxe" liner for these multiple X Borsalino's. There were other options available. Perhaps the "Super Borsalino" also fits in this scheme?

Regards,

 

[marineabilly]

I got another Alessandria with a much smaller brim. What my problem is that the front portion of the brim is flimsy and won't hold a shape. Is there any way possible to stiffen it up again?

Also, it was packed poorly and now has wrinkles. How does one take wrinkles out. I'm new to quality caps, so I have no idea.

My BLOG, as linked on my TFL member homepage.

 

[ScottF]

Here's another pic of the inside of that 5X Borso.

Closest we can figure is early 40s and it was sold in Naples... Salvatore Balbi 260, Via Chiaia Napoli

Here's a 5X I just picked up, with a similar liner and size tag. The liner has the Borsalino logo, but also 'Leo'. From listing:

Innerband Gold Embossed:
"Borsalino Grand Prix-Paris 1900" (logo)
"Antica Casa Fondata Nel 1857"
"XXXXX" with LEO stamped into leather
"AKH” (initials)
“Fabrizi Roma” (logo)
Inside Hat Print (cover is yellow tinted with slight tear):
Picture of Lion with LEO (logo)
Produzione Extra Lusso
Borsalino
Unico Depositario
Fabrizi
Roma

 

[feltfan]

Changin' my name to Scott...

 

[Scott Wood]

Changin' my name to Scott...

lol [huh] lol

 

[Scott Wood]

Thanks Scott,

May I ask what makes you definite about early 40s as the date?

I have a number of hats from the Balbi shop too. As we know from an older thread, hat shops ("cappellaria") could choose between different liners. Balbi continuously used the "Marque Grand Luxe" liner for these multiple X Borsalino's. There were other options available. Perhaps the "Super Borsalino" also fits in this scheme?

Regards,

The only thing I have for the dating is comparison to others of known age. I don't know anything "for sure" but early 40s is educated guess.

 

[Scott Wood]

Black wide brim...

Folks were keeping an eye out for wide brimmed black Borsos and here is my 2 3/8" offering, an Imperiale "Garrett" with no liner nor distinguishing characteristics of any kind that I can find...

 

[Phineas Lamour]

Picked this up the other day.

Sorry about the blurry pics.

 

[ScottF]

I just received this Borsalino 'Leo'. It has 'LEO' stamped below 'XXXXX' on the sweatband at the front, as well as in the Borsalino portion of the liner logo. On the sweatband side, and also at the bottom of the liner logo, it has the seller's stamp 'Fabrizi Roma'. Has anyone else seen the 'Leo' model Borsalino?
This one is velour with 2 3/4" bound brim.

 

[carouselvic]

Yes, I own one and have seen a number of others sell on ebay. A homburg Leo sold on ebay recently.

 

[ScottF]

Yes, I own one and have seen a number of others sell on ebay. A homburg Leo sold on ebay recently.

Thanks. 'Leo' must have referred to the felt rather than the style.

 

[Dreispitz]

Mario, and others,

I would like to put forward the following hypothesis for discussion:

- Borsalino's produced for the US-market and from, say, the post-war period have the non-reeded sweat with the corrugation.

- Borsalino's produced for the European market from the same period are reeded, and never have the corrugation. (Nb. I am at the office at the moment. I am sure about the pre-sale blocked Borsalino's in my collection being reeded, but not about the Borsalino's that came folded in the triangular boxes. I will fill in this part of the hypothesis later on.)

Any insights?

Hm, here is a late 60ies or early 70ies Borsalino sold in Germany

 

[Dreispitz]

Borsalino Centurion

Here is a Borsalino Centurion. It features a 1857 - 1957 liner imprint. Therefore the hat may be from 1957 or not much later.

It comes from a French source and was made for the French market. Very soft felt, overwelt 6,5 cm brim.

 

[mayserwegener]

Here is a Borsalino Centurion. It features a 1857 - 1957 liner imprint. Therefore the hat may be from 1957 or not much later.

It comes from a French source and was made for the French market. Very soft felt, overwelt 6,5 cm brim.

Wow great find and one beauty of a hat! The market variations are interesting. :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

 

[Mario]

Ja, Dreispitz! Schau, schau - 's a fesches Kapperl! :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

 

[Dreispitz]

Ja, Dreispitz! Schau, schau - 's a fesches Kapperl! :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

Ja da Mario! Vergöits Gott!