The BORSALINO BROTHERHOOD

[steur]

Borsalino Ta Fazara fedora in Mirtillo colour. Size 58 with the triple stitched overwelt brim at 6cm and the crown at 10,5cm at the center dent. Sold to me as a black hat, this is not the first time the hat turned out to be a dark blue Mirtillo coloured one. The model has been seen before, but it is rare. What is even more rare are the purple liner and white sweatband. Extremely cool. The hat is lightweight at 100 grams, is very soft with a great hand to the felt. Works brim up, like I photographed it here, and brim down (better up, I think).
I'm bummed out though, because it isn't my size and I will be letting this one go. Imported by Ferner Jacobsen of Oslo, Norway.

 

[Mighty44]

Borsalino Ta Fazara fedora in Mirtillo colour. Size 58 with the triple stitched overwelt brim at 6cm and the crown at 10,5cm at the center dent. Sold to me as a black hat, this is not the first time the hat turned out to be a dark blue Mirtillo coloured one. The model has been seen before, but it is rare. What is even more rare are the purple liner and white sweatband. Extremely cool. The hat is lightweight at 100 grams, is very soft with a great hand to the felt. Works brim up, like I photographed it here, and brim down (better up, I think).
I'm bummed out though, because it isn't my size and I will be letting this one go. Imported by Ferner Jacobsen of Oslo, Norway.

 

[Daniele Tanto]

This purchase was a matter of mere curiosity

Two hats with the same shape, differing in the color of the felt, same size sold in Cortina d'Ampezzo, the queen ski resort in the Dolomites

Borsalino Qualità Extra Eextra Superiore Size 7 or 61 cm. but suitable for a head size 60 or 7 1/2 in the USA. The felt is a mixture, one called "Misto Acciao" (Mixed Steel), the other "Misto Quaglia" (Misto Quail)


The linings are of different colors and the finishes denote quality hats and certainly high priced hats sold in Cortina d'Ampezzo

The ribbons are one of the examples of Borsalino's "creativity" in a period of great change in the aesthetics of hats.
Presumably the 1960s from the shape and proportions of our subjects. Bought in a branch of a shop of which I can't find any trace, probably during a holiday stay

Let's talk about felt which is one of those to remember in the immense production of Borsalino, when marketing research required having particular products different from the competition.
The Misto (Mix) is a combination of fur and wool to be able to obtain this type of melange colors with the stitching on the sides to embellish the workmanship.

I think this is one of the last purchases, out of pure curiosity, in this period of my life as a collector. We'll see what the future temptations will be

 

[steur]

Borsalino extra Lusso fedora in black. Size 56 with the raw edge brim at 7cm and the crown at 10,5 cm at the center dent. Bit of an oddity this one. No label behind the unreeded sweatband and the liner is not a Borsalino liner, so I'm thinking it is a replacement. Still sewn in, so an early replacement. The size label on the sweatband is the same as the ones we find on the earlier Borsalinos separates from the main label. The Borsalino logo is the smaller one we also see sometimes on earlier Borsalinos. The has me thinking this is likely from the late thirties or early forties. Great hand to the felt and it weighs 108 grams.

 

[SnowyViking]

This is my Borsalino Fine panama hat

 

[BobHufford]

1960s (?) Italian (naturally) Milan stingy brim. The pug needs some pressing.

 

[The Shooman]

My hat maker told me today that Borsalino is trying to build back the old quality back into their hats. Is this true, are things getting better quality wise?

 

[steur]

1960s (?) Italian (naturally) Milan stingy brim. The pug needs some pressing.

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Cool find, Bob. These Borsalino straws (other than panama) don't show up very often.

 

[steur]

My hat maker told me today that Borsalino is trying to build back the old quality back into their hats. Is this true, are things getting better quality wise?

I couldn't tell you about the quality of their current hats, because I don't have one. No doubt they still produce very fine hats, but I think it wouldn't make much sense for them to strive for "vintage" quality felts. The fur trade is only a fraction of what it once was and there no longer won't be a large quantity of premium furs to choose from. The number of hatters has declined as well to make those truly high end hats and most of their clients are only interested in a recognisable "brand" anyway and likely couldn't tell a quality felt from their elbow.

 

[Steve1857]

My hat maker told me today that Borsalino is trying to build back the old quality back into their hats. Is this true, are things getting better quality wise?

I couldn't tell you about the quality of their current hats, because I don't have one. No doubt they still produce very fine hats, but I think it wouldn't make much sense for them to strive for "vintage" quality felts. The fur trade is only a fraction of what it once was and there no longer won't be a large quantity of premium furs to choose from. The number of hatters has declined as well to make those truly high end hats and most of their clients are only interested in a recognisable "brand" anyway and likely couldn't tell a quality felt from their elbow.

I agree with, Stefan.

I do own a couple of modern Borsalinos. One of them I bought new in 2016. I'm glad I bought it, but quality wise, my vintage Borsalinos are much better.

Price wise, I could have bought 3-4 better quality vintage Borsalinos.

Emotionally, I'd be sad to see Borsalino go out of business. But the only way they can survive is on their name alone. They can produce vintage looking hats, but they can't go back to vintage quality. It would be too time consuming and cost ineffective.

 

[Daniele Tanto]

But, perhaps... but it's a chimera.
It may be that Borsalino "recovers" some vintage hats in the shapes and finishes and the felt is adequate for the purpose, but I see this marketing operation as very limited by the needs of the current clientele reduced to putting a brand on their head, no matter what its support is .
I agree with Stefan and Steve's analysis who, as good Europeans, have an eye accustomed to the trajectories of Borsalino. As an Italian I can tell you that I might be surprised by Borsalino's moves, but after the Bogart which has the appearance of a vintage hat nothing more remarkable has arrived on the market.
We'll see...with little hope
The current felt collection is not impressive at all

 

[Daniele Tanto]

Borsalino extra Lusso fedora in black. Size 56 with the raw edge brim at 7cm and the crown at 10,5 cm at the center dent. Bit of an oddity this one. No label behind the unreeded sweatband and the liner is not a Borsalino liner, so I'm thinking it is a replacement. Still sewn in, so an early replacement. The size label on the sweatband is the same as the ones we find on the earlier Borsalinos separates from the main label. The Borsalino logo is the smaller one we also see sometimes on earlier Borsalinos. The has me thinking this is likely from the late thirties or early forties. Great hand to the felt and it weighs 108 grams.

It is a Borsalino that tries, in some way, to hide.
I have some too that are undoubtedly Borsalino, but with something different that confuses the eye. In this case the lining which however has something familiar with the well-known "Casa di Alessandria"
Anyway, the hat is fantastic. Bravo Stefano!

 

[steur]

It is a Borsalino that tries, in some way, to hide.
I have some too that are undoubtedly Borsalino, but with something different that confuses the eye. In this case the lining which however has something familiar with the well-known "Casa di Alessandria"
Anyway, the hat is fantastic. Bravo Stefano!

Thank you, Daniele. It's these oddities that keep me interested.

 

[Christopher Smith]

Hi everyone, can anyone help me date this vintage Borsalino? I've seen similar that I have emailed Borsalino about directly and have had them dated around "30 - 40's. The ones I've seen in the past were made for the export market, specifically the United States. This one was made for Gano-Downs store in Denver. I have looked to see when that store opened and closed as that would help with dating but can not find anything. What I did get feedback on was it was most likely late 30's early 40's. I figured the United States entered World War 2 against the European axis powers on December 11th 1941. So I figured that would be a good cut off point to say it's no later than that. I also saw a chart that said the inventory label under the sweatband would put it in a similar range with the edges and the sideways Borsalino logo and the separate size sticker. Other than that I would say the fact that it does not have the reed and the logo is similar to a later one that added the blue and red colors into the circle I feel like that's a good estimate. I don't know when Borsalino started adding the red and blue into the logo but I have seen that in both Borsalino's that the company has told me were 50's models and one that was dated to 30's - 40's. Also, there is an LG which I would think are the original owner's initials but I've never seen initials put in the same way the logo and store name are put into the leather band. Any idea if that's just the way they did it for this hat or is there something else more interesting that it could mean? Anyway, any help on dating this would be really great. Thanks!

Thanks!

.

 

[Crown Royal]

Hi everyone, can anyone help me date this vintage Borsalino? I've seen similar that I have emailed Borsalino about directly and have had them dated around "30 - 40's. The ones I've seen in the past were made for the export market, specifically the United States. This one was made for Gano-Downs store in Denver. I have looked to see when that store opened and closed as that would help with dating but can not find anything. What I did get feedback on was it was most likely late 30's early 40's. I figured the United States entered World War 2 against the European axis powers on December 11th 1941. So I figured that would be a good cut off point to say it's no later than that. I also saw a chart that said the inventory label under the sweatband would put it in a similar range with the edges and the sideways Borsalino logo and the separate size sticker. Other than that I would say the fact that it does not have the reed and the logo is similar to a later one that added the blue and red colors into the circle I feel like that's a good estimate. I don't know when Borsalino started adding the red and blue into the logo but I have seen that in both Borsalino's that the company has told me were 50's models and one that was dated to 30's - 40's. Also, there is an LG which I would think are the original owner's initials but I've never seen initials put in the same way the logo and store name are put into the leather band. Any idea if that's just the way they did it for this hat or is there something else more interesting that it could mean? Anyway, any help on dating this would be really great. Thanks! View attachment 630097 View attachment 630099 View attachment 630100 View attachment 630101 Thanks! View attachment 630101 View attachment 630100 View attachment 630099 View attachment 630097 . View attachment 630097 View attachment 630099 View attachment 630100 View attachment 630101 View attachment 630102

Great hat! Based on the separate size labels, I think the experts here would agree on dating this as a late 1930's/early 1940's lid. This should tide you over until the cavalry arrives.

 

[neuron]

Greetings to all. I am a noob, and if I was supposed to get started @ TFL via a different route, apologies. In penance, I will share 2 hats. They both need a bit of TLC, granted. However, part from trying this myself, it seems that no one near my home will do that for hats they did not create themselves.

The first, I had a friend purchase for me in Florence, in 1976, for the equivalent of $60 (US). (I was young, and I had neither the time, cash nor patience to get it cleaned and re-blocked. Retirement is curing those issues.) Self-ordained hat mavens locally believe the felt to be beaver or rabbit; there was never anything inside the hat to suggest that. Does that word "ELIOS" above the name in the lining make sense to anyone?

 

[neuron]

Hat #2, was "up in Mary's room behind the clock". No recall when and how it arrived. My name was written on the lining by someone else. No other clues. "Export forbidden" on the sweatband suggests--? too good to let out of the country, or ?not good enough.

Thanks much to all for your patience; any help re; dating the hats, Elios, etc., especially regarding hat care much appreciated.

 

[Blare]

Hat #2, was "up in Mary's room behind the clock". No recall when and how it arrived. My name was written on the lining by someone else. No other clues. "Export forbidden" on the sweatband suggests--? too good to let out of the country, or ?not good enough.

Thanks much to all for your patience; any help re; dating the hats, Elios, etc., especially regarding hat care much appreciated.

Welcome…. Two great entrants that should certainly garner entry into the Borsalino Brotherhood…. Though I’d leave that honor to be bestowed by @steur and @Daniele Tanto

The second hat appears to me a couple decades older than the first. I’m sure Stefan and Daniele can offer more insight

 

[Daniele Tanto]

Hi everyone, can anyone help me date this vintage Borsalino? I've seen similar that I have emailed Borsalino about directly and have had them dated around "30 - 40's. The ones I've seen in the past were made for the export market, specifically the United States. This one was made for Gano-Downs store in Denver. I have looked to see when that store opened and closed as that would help with dating but can not find anything. What I did get feedback on was it was most likely late 30's early 40's. I figured the United States entered World War 2 against the European axis powers on December 11th 1941. So I figured that would be a good cut off point to say it's no later than that. I also saw a chart that said the inventory label under the sweatband would put it in a similar range with the edges and the sideways Borsalino logo and the separate size sticker. Other than that I would say the fact that it does not have the reed and the logo is similar to a later one that added the blue and red colors into the circle I feel like that's a good estimate. I don't know when Borsalino started adding the red and blue into the logo but I have seen that in both Borsalino's that the company has told me were 50's models and one that was dated to 30's - 40's. Also, there is an LG which I would think are the original owner's initials but I've never seen initials put in the same way the logo and store name are put into the leather band. Any idea if that's just the way they did it for this hat or is there something else more interesting that it could mean? Anyway, any help on dating this would be really great. Thanks!

Greetings to all. I am a noob, and if I was supposed to get started @ TFL via a different route, apologies. In penance, I will share 2 hats. They both need a bit of TLC, granted. However, part from trying this myself, it seems that no one near my home will do that for hats they did not create themselves.

The first, I had a friend purchase for me in Florence, in 1976, for the equivalent of $60 (US). (I was young, and I had neither the time, cash nor patience to get it cleaned and re-blocked. Retirement is curing those issues.) Self-ordained hat mavens locally believe the felt to be beaver or rabbit; there was never anything inside the hat to suggest that. Does that word "ELIOS" above the name in the lining make sense to anyone?

Hat #2, was "up in Mary's room behind the clock". No recall when and how it arrived. My name was written on the lining by someone else. No other clues. "Export forbidden" on the sweatband suggests--? too good to let out of the country, or ?not good enough.

Thanks much to all for your patience; any help re; dating the hats, Elios, etc., especially regarding hat care much appreciated.

Welcome…. Two great entrants that should certainly garner entry into the Borsalino Brotherhood…. Though I’d leave that honor to be bestowed by @steur and @Daniele Tanto

The second hat appears to me a couple decades older than the first. I’m sure Stefan and Daniele can offer more insight

Joe you leave me a difficult task
I looked at the three Borsalinos that appeared yesterday with interest and I drew some conclusions that I wanted to sleep on before exposing them, because the first is the one that engaged me the most in its "identification".
@ Cristopher Smith First of all it was obvious to me that the hat has characteristics that for some reason are not very logical. The lining is that of the pre-war Borsalinos in Italy, in Europe the one with blue and red colors was used. Not always, knowing Borsalino's desire to consume any available material, does the sweatband seem more recent to me. The paper tag is from a hat made before World War II, but they are also found on hats made just after the end of the war. Alternative to all this: the hat was "refurbished" after the Second World War by the importer who used a new sweatband. In short, there is something that, in my personal opinion, is not logical in its appearance as it was found. In any case, the hat is very beautiful.
@ neuron The other two presented are more datable and readable. Both were built for the Italian market. The first, the color "Rusco", a dialect word from Bologna which means "garbage" is relatively recent, let's say from the Sixties - Seventies. Helios means nothing. It was a little marketing for the retailer. I would like to see the real color in light and shadow. The second, "Narvalo" color was made in the 1950s or 1960s. I haven't seen the seller, but "Esportazione vietata" is another little Borsalino marketing touch often used for hats without the retailer's name on the lining or/and sweatband. Two nice hats

 

[steur]

Hat #2, was "up in Mary's room behind the clock". No recall when and how it arrived. My name was written on the lining by someone else. No other clues. "Export forbidden" on the sweatband suggests--? too good to let out of the country, or ?not good enough.

Thanks much to all for your patience; any help re; dating the hats, Elios, etc., especially regarding hat care much appreciated.

Not much to add to what @Daniele Tanto has already said above, except that "Rusco" is a colour we have not seen before, which is always nice to see. I really like the look of the "narvalo". Welcome to the lounge and to the Borsalino Brotherhood.