The BORSALINO BROTHERHOOD

[steur]

Borsalino Nutria Opale part II

The Antica Casa emblem is placed in the front of the sweatband in stead of next to the Borsalino name. First time I've seen this.

 

[Daniele Tanto]

Borsalino Augusta Diamante in a semi-longhair finish. Colour Bismuto, Size 56, with the underwelt brim at 5cm (which I read here is still not considered a stingy) and crown depending on which crease either at 10 or 11 cm at the pinch. The felt is gorgeous and it's a very pettable hat and it takes any creasy with no steam. It's the nice full crown that prevents it from looking like a little (or stingy) hat. The underwelt is done with blind stitching, so the stitches don't show on the top of the brim. If the borsalino label theory holds true this should have been made in 1979.

I like this felt finish! It is one of my favourite in the Borsalino types.
From the size tag it is a 7, so a 61, if Borsalino size tag are to trust

Borsalino Nutria Celespo in Opale colour. Size 57, with the raw edge brim at 7cm and the crown 10cm at the pinch. Lined with the crown patch covered with cellophane (love those).
It needs some work because the sweatband stitching is loose and the ribbon is soiled (needs replacement). That felt though...

Very interesting, I hope it was the same color of the seller photo

 

[steur]

I like this felt finish! It is one of my favourite in the Borsalino types.
From the size tag it is a 7, so a 61, if Borsalino size tag are to trust


Very interesting, I hope it was the same color of the seller photo

Thank you, Daniele. The colour is indeed quite a bit different than the auction pictures show, which was more a blue/grey.

That would have been nice. I'd have to compare this nutria Opale to the homburg in Opale I have to see if there's any difference.

The tag on the Diamante is an American size tag, so the 7 corresponds with size 56. The felt is super. Better than the longhair Ardilla. Not as good though as the mystery longhair in Morello you sent me some time ago, which has thinner felt.

 

[Steinbockhase]

One of my first Borsalinos. The felt is rather thin and semi-stiff. Unfortunately it was smaller than expected; had to stretch it quite a bit to wear it. In addition I altered the typical Borsalino center-dent into a low teardrop with much rake towards the back. The stretch is noticable on brim curvature and the ripples in front, but I kind of like the used and distressed look; for casual outfits.
As i understand the tag, the modell number 1169, color 4 and size 5. Does the collection number reveal anything about the production date? Feedback is much appreciated.

 

[Steinbockhase]

Another one of my first Borsalinos. Thin and dense semi-stiff felt; I like the bounded edge.
Again I felt driven to alter the typical Borsalino center-dent; this time into a Pork Pie.
Modell L5997 in color Caffe. Can anyone help with translating the production number into a date?

 

[steur]

One of my first Borsalinos. The felt is rather thin and semi-stiff. Unfortunately it was smaller than expected; had to stretch it quite a bit to wear it. In addition I altered the typical Borsalino center-dent into a low teardrop with much rake towards the back. The stretch is noticable on brim curvature and the ripples in front, but I kind of like the used and distressed look; for casual outfits.
As i understand the tag, the modell number 1169, color 4 and size 5. Does the collection number reveal anything about the production date? Feedback is much appreciated.

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Another one of my first Borsalinos. Thin and dense semi-stiff felt; I like the bounded edge.
Again I felt driven to alter the typical Borsalino center-dent; this time into a Pork Pie.
Modell L5997 in color Caffe. Can anyone help with translating the production number into a date?

View attachment 133740 View attachment 133741 View attachment 133742 View attachment 133746 View attachment 133747

You've certainly made those hats your own! The first one is the newer one. The consensus seems to be that for these labels the first two numbers signify the production year. So 2013. I'm not so sure about that one though.
The caffe coloured one, which is a grat colour by the way, would be 1976, which looks about right with the liner and size tag.

 

[Steinbockhase]

You've certainly made those hats your own! The first one is the newer one. The consensus seems to be that for these labels the first two numbers signify the production year. So 2013. I'm not so sure about that one though.
The caffe coloured one, which is a grat colour by the way, would be 1976, which looks about right with the liner and size tag.

Thank you very much for the kind feedback. I already assumed the # 76-08193 could mean 1976.
I am surprised the other hat could be 40 years younger (# 130873); ofcourse the liner looks more modern, but the felt seems to be of similar quality.

 

[Daniele Tanto]

Thank you very much for the kind feedback. I already assumed the # 76-08193 could mean 1976.
I am surprised the other hat could be 40 years younger (# 130873); ofcourse the liner looks more modern, but the felt seems to be of similar quality.

I am very skeptical about "translating" Borsalino labels to try and understand the year of production. I believe that both hats were produced in the 70s. This belief is given by the shape, the lining and other details, such as the finishes. The two Borsalino belong to the historical production, before the sale of Borsalino. Regarding the size: it is always a puzzle to understand if the Borsalino will be suitable for your head, especially when you can not try it. On average the sizes are smaller than large, but I also have Borsalino whose size is exaggerated. If the size 5 or 57 cm is not the right one you should go to 5 1/2 or a 58 to have the confidence to wear them effortlessly. The first is really derelict after enlargement, but everyone does what he wants with his hats.

 

[alanfgag]

Borsalino Nutria Opale part II

The Antica Casa emblem is placed in the front of the sweatband in stead of next to the Borsalino name. First time I've seen this.

Yes, this order of imprint is used in both the nutria Featherweight and nutria homburg that I own. On the homburg, a second "Nutria" stamp is used. The words "Feather Weight" are printed in this location on the other hat.

 

[steur]

Yes, this order of imprint is used in both the nutria Featherweight and nutria homburg that I own. On the homburg, a second "Nutria" stamp is used. The words "Feather Weight" are printed in this location on the other hat.

View attachment 133860

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Interesting information, Alan. It was new to me, because the only other Borsalino nutria I have only says so on the liner.

 

[Steinbockhase]

I am very skeptical about "translating" Borsalino labels to try and understand the year of production. I believe that both hats were produced in the 70s. This belief is given by the shape, the lining and other details, such as the finishes. The two Borsalino belong to the historical production, before the sale of Borsalino. Regarding the size: it is always a puzzle to understand if the Borsalino will be suitable for your head, especially when you can not try it. On average the sizes are smaller than large, but I also have Borsalino whose size is exaggerated. If the size 5 or 57 cm is not the right one you should go to 5 1/2 or a 58 to have the confidence to wear them effortlessly. The first is really derelict after enlargement, but everyone does what he wants with his hats.

Thank you for your input, Daniele. I expected both hats are from the same time period, having so much in common.
I agree that many older Borsalinos are often smaller than tagged; especially when they were still using the old Punti sizes.

Until now, I only have a simple hat-jack for stretching my hats. I am waiting for my first wood hat-block with a basic round (open crown) dome. Then I will able to re-block and restore my hats. This should work better for enlarging as well.
For difficult size differences, I am considering buying one of those full size hat-block stretchers.

 

[Daniele Tanto]

I agree that many older Borsalinos are often smaller than tagged; especially when they were still using the old Punti sizes.

Until now, I only have a simple hat-jack for stretching my hats. I am waiting for my first wood hat-block with a basic round (open crown) dome. Then I will able to re-block and restore my hats. This should work better for enlarging as well.
For difficult size differences, I am considering buying one of those full size hat-block stretchers.

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Punti size is the French measurement method used in Borsalino because Mr. Giuseppe, having worked at Berteil-Paris, used it when he started his business in Italy. I do not find big differences in sizes between the new and old Borsalino. You have a very common measure of hats, the 57 centimeters, of used and new hats you can find in tons, why buy a block to enlarge them? You know then that almost always the work of enlarging the hats brings inconveniences. Try to think about it

 

[alanfgag]

Interesting information, Alan. It was new to me, because the only other Borsalino nutria I have only says so on the liner.

Borsalino always seems to defy our attempts to pigeonhole... though no other hats other than nutria (Castoro, for example) seem to use that variation. That said, I'm sure one will surface!

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Thank you for your input, Daniele. I expected both hats are from the same time period, having so much in common.
I agree that many older Borsalinos are often smaller than tagged; especially when they were still using the old Punti sizes.

Until now, I only have a simple hat-jack for stretching my hats. I am waiting for my first wood hat-block with a basic round (open crown) dome. Then I will able to re-block and restore my hats. This should work better for enlarging as well.
For difficult size differences, I am considering buying one of those full size hat-block stretchers.

I’ve ruined a few hats with a stretcher. If all you’re doing is giving a gentle bump to take a hat that sort of fits to where it fits better or making a standard oval into a long oval that’s one thing, but it’s just not worth it to try to size up a hat. Just my personal experience.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Steinbockhase]

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Punti size is the French measurement method used in Borsalino because Mr. Giuseppe, having worked at Berteil-Paris, used it when he started his business in Italy. I do not find big differences in sizes between the new and old Borsalino. You have a very common measure of hats, the 57 centimeters, of used and new hats you can find in tons, why buy a block to enlarge them? You know then that almost always the work of enlarging the hats brings inconveniences. Try to think about it

I’ve ruined a few hats with a stretcher. If all you’re doing is giving a gentle bump to take a hat that sort of fits to where it fits better or making a standard oval into a long oval that’s one thing, but it’s just not worth it to try to size up a hat. Just my personal experience.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hello gentlemen.
Ofcourse I do not purposely buy hats too small. My head circumference is 56,7cm. All of my hats are tagged atleast 57 or 58 and even some 59cm (or the equivilant in other scales). Unfortunately quite a few turned out to be smaller than tagged; sometimes more than a centimeter. So I am not really enlarging a smaller hat size; just trying to restore the size the hat was supposed to have orginally. In most cases the size difference is not that big; mild stretching or getting that long-oval works well. In some rare cases (like the beige Borsalino shown) the size difference was honestly too big for stretching, but I tried it anyway; that sucker was supposed to be a 5 = 57cm, but actually only had a circumference of 55,5cm !.
Too bad I can't wear 56cm or smaller. Ebay is full of beautiful vintage hats with low prices for people with "pin heads".

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Hello gentlemen.
Ofcourse I do not purposely buy hats too small. My head circumference is 56,7cm. All of my hats are tagged atleast 57 or 58 and even some 59cm (or the equivilant in other scales). Unfortunately quite a few turned out to be smaller than tagged; sometimes more than a centimeter. So I am not really enlarging a smaller hat size; just trying to restore the size the hat was supposed to have orginally. In most cases the size difference is not that big; mild stretching or getting that long-oval works well. In some rare cases (like the beige Borsalino shown) the size difference was honestly too big for stretching, but I tried it anyway; that sucker was supposed to be a 5 = 57cm, but actually only had a circumference of 55,5cm !.
Too bad I can't wear 56cm or smaller. Ebay is full of beautiful vintage hats with low prices for people with "pin heads".

You get no sympathy from me. I’m a 61 to 62cm.

 

[Daniele Tanto]

A summer purchase. The homburg came from the great field of Simon Zlateff - Sofia.
It arrived in United Kingdom as many others and from there back to Italy after a long trip over time

Lobbia Borsalino Qualità Superiore. Size is 6 1/2, so a 60 in EU or a 7 1/2 in US

Color is "Bismuto" cinta (ribbon) Nero "Erodisti" Felt is medium soft, malleable with a contrasting ribbon

It has some defects in the lining and the wind cord lost the button

The felt is great and the ribbons clear

It is a very classic Lobbia or homburg, different from the previous in "Palladio" I showed some days ago

This "Lobbia" Borsalino or homburg or Diplomatique is the type with "normal" brim, so more curled then the "Palladio"

The proportions are: brim at 6 cm. ribbon is 4 cm. and the crown is 11 cm.

I prefer more the Palladio shape and its type of brim, more flat.
More to come

 

[mayserwegener]

Daniele, Great to see this one! It has a similar blue / red liner piping as my Zalteff. I also good to see the Eulan label is still intact. By the way none of my older (WWII era or older) Borsalinos with wind cords have buttons (just loops).

 

[Daniele Tanto]

By the way none of my older (WWII era or older) Borsalinos with wind cords have buttons (just loops).

It was also my belief too, but not having examples in hand and not remembering well those seen, I deduced, badly, that there should be the button. The blue/red liner is also on another homburg I have that was sold in Slovakia in the same period.

 

[steur]

A summer purchase. The homburg came from the great field of Simon Zlateff - Sofia.
It arrived in United Kingdom as many others and from there back to Italy after a long trip over time

Lobbia Borsalino Qualità Superiore. Size is 6 1/2, so a 60 in EU or a 7 1/2 in US

Color is "Bismuto" cinta (ribbon) Nero "Erodisti" Felt is medium soft, malleable with a contrasting ribbon

It has some defects in the lining and the wind cord lost the button

The felt is great and the ribbons clear

It is a very classic Lobbia or homburg, different from the previous in "Palladio" I showed some days ago

This "Lobbia" Borsalino or homburg or Diplomatique is the type with "normal" brim, so more curled then the "Palladio"

The proportions are: brim at 6 cm. ribbon is 4 cm. and the crown is 11 cm.

I prefer more the Palladio shape and its type of brim, more flat.
More to come

Gorgeous hat, Daniele. Classic. So far the Zlateff hats have eluded me, but who knows?