The BORSALINO BROTHERHOOD

[carouselvic]

I guess I'm missing something here. Where did Carter post a liner like the one you posted?

 

[ScottF]

I guess I'm missing something here. Where did Carter post a liner like the one you posted?

Carter posted a picture of his liner. My observation was that mine is 'similar', not 'the same'. If you don't think his is like the one I posted, I understand. I wouldn't expect two separate (but related) companies to use the exact same liner, but the similarities in style make me think they are from the same general period. JMO - that and a dime....

I don't know that it really matters. I'm certain my hat is pre-1933, simply because the company was absorbed at that point. Carter has experts who have examined his hat telling him it's '20s or '30s. Whether or not the liners have a similar graphics style is just a discussion point.

 

[carouselvic]

Carter's hat was made for the US market, yours was not. To me it's apples and oranges.

 

[ScottF]

Carter's hat was made for the US market, yours was not. To me it's apples and oranges.

Look at the graphics style. It's a similarity that I think applies to the period, regardless of the location it was made for.

I don't mind agreeing to disagree.

 

[jimmy the lid]

Well, in terms of using Carter's lid to explore the topic of Borsalino dating...

Would we expect that a 20's or 30's Borsalino would have a sweat that was taped at the seam (versus stitched)? I don't know whether Borsalino used both methods pre-40's, but I do know that the taped seam is usually an indicator of an earlier lid. Discuss amongst yourselves...

Cheers,
JtL

 

[ScottF]

Well, in terms of using Carter's lid to explore the topic of Borsalino dating...

Would we expect that a 20's or 30's Borsalino would have a sweat that was taped at the seam (versus stitched)? I don't know whether Borsalino used both methods pre-40's, but I do know that the taped seam is usually an indicator of an earlier lid. Discuss amongst yourselves...

Cheers,
JtL

That's a good point. There were pics in Dinerman's thread of hats that had the sewn seam that were older. In addition, I have a Borsalino from the '50s or early '60s that has a taped seam, and two older ones that have a sewn seam. I would love to find out that the newer one is actually pre-40s, but I don't think that's the case. I'm sure you can't date a hat purely from the liner, but I'm graphics-oriented and have used graphics to date a lot of historical objects in the past, so given what little I know about the other characteristics of these hats, I'd still go with Carter's being from a similar period. You can also look at the liners of many of the old English labels and Stetsons, and they are that same thin black line graphic design. I know there are exceptions to that, of course, but it's a trend.

 

[Lefty]

I don't care when it was made, I love this liner! :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

 

[cookie]

It is grand Lefty. You would have to think the font is late Art Nouveau.

 

[ScottF]

Carter's hat was made for the US market, yours was not. To me it's apples and oranges.

Also, I want to apologize for being stubborn - I tend to debate more once I feel comfortable with people, and this is quite a comfortable place. I'm sure you and others know a lot more than I do about construction/design differences based on different markets.

 

[carouselvic]

If I came off mean spirited in any way, it was unintentional. So no harm, no foul? OK

BTW I do like both of the hats.

 

[ScottF]

If I came off mean spirited in any way, it was unintentional. So no harm, no foul? OK

BTW I do like both of the hats.

No, I understand - no problem at all.

I think Carter's hat is amazing - he really needs to trade it to me.

 

[carouselvic]

Dinerman & JtL for all you do, these photos are for you




When I compare these two hats side by side, I find no difference in the liner material.

 

[feltfan]

The guys in Ft. Worth based their assessment of the age of the hat on the liner which is sewn-in silk and on the Borsalino logo which they do not believe was rendered in this fashion later than the early 30's.

Borsalino certainly used sewn-in silk through the 50s, maybe later.
They certainly used unreeded sweats into the 70s (check out that
Western Borsalino I posted recently).

I think liners in Borsalinos were extremely variable.
Certainly there were special liners just for individual Italian hat
stores, as we've seen. That hat style just seems like a
40s/50s design to me.

 

[DOUGLAS]

My Word that is a beauty of a hat:eusa_clap :eusa_clap

 

[ScottF]

My Word that is a beauty of a hat:eusa_clap :eusa_clap

Thanks, Douglas - I just wish it fit. Because of the historical appeal, I put a small bid in on ebay Italy, and no one bid against me. It was a lot of fun to work with that nice soft felt.

I have four other vintage Borsalinos and every one has gorgeous lines. This Allesandro I received today may be the best one yet:

 

[Dixon Cannon]

Which sun between stars...

Spotted this tribute to the 'brotherhood' whilst lunching in a
Liverpool (UK) restaurant this past week. The translation is above.

As I snapped it, the waitress said, "It looks like yours!".
To which I replied, "Yes it does". If she only knew!

Cheers, 'Borso Bros' - I represented us well on Merseyside.

-dixon cannon

 

[carter]

Good eye. Nice poster!

 

[PistolPete1969]

I hereby humbly submit my application to join your illustrious Brotherhood. Enclosed are pics of my grandfather's Borso Allesandria I received a while back. It is VERY thin "handkerchief" felt.

 

[gtdean48]

Can we see the insides of the hat? [huh]

 

[Michaelshane]

This one is thin handkerchief felt too...

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