The BORSALINO BROTHERHOOD

[tortswon]

More importantly, congratulations on your annual day of sun! :eusa_clap Best, Sam

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Regarding labels, this one looks very old:

This is a very hard hat to date - I own one and yours is only the second i've seen. Mine has had the liner replaced with a very old Mallory liner.

It is known that Borsalino from the 20s onwards was promoting the Grand Prix Paris 1900. And presumably they were doing this from just after the Grand Prix was won in Paris in 1900. Now, this begs the question of why some hats (2 that i've seen, now) have the Turin 1911 beig bragged about. I came to the conclusion, but i have no data, that these hats are from a very brief period after the Turin win. So the hat would be pre-1920s. Mine certainly appears to be, in terms of style, and the sweatband.

Can you show a picture of your hat showing the crown, ribbon, etc.?

bk

 

[ScottF]

This is a very hard hat to date - I own one and yours is only the second i've seen. Mine has had the liner replaced with a very old Mallory liner.

It is known that Borsalino from the 20s onwards was promoting the Grand Prix Paris 1900. And presumably they were doing this from just after the Grand Prix was won in Paris in 1900. Now, this begs the question of why some hats (2 that i've seen, now) have the Turin 1911 beig bragged about. I came to the conclusion, but i have no data, that these hats are from a very brief period after the Turin win. So the hat would be pre-1920s. Mine certainly appears to be, in terms of style, and the sweatband.

Can you show a picture of your hat showing the crown, ribbon, etc.?

bk

Thanks for the info on it, bk. I only have the following additional pics, but will post more when the hat's in hand:

 

[ScottF]

This has been a very strange 3-Borso acquisition week. Here's the latest, and it has automatically risen to my #1 hat...my humble submission for consideration as admittance to the Brotherhood. I've included a picture of the serial # tag - any ideas as to age?

 

[rlk]

Thanks for the info on it, bk. I only have the following additional pics, but will post more when the hat's in hand:

Apparently G.B.Borsalino was a cousin of the Borsalino main family business(I think a son of Lazzaro one of the founding brothers. This was absorbed into the main firm in 1937. I'll try to find a link to this info I discovered a few weeks ago.

 

[rlk]

If you can read Italian here's a good link:

http://www.isral.it/web/web/risorsedocumenti/25%20aprile_%20da%20una%20guerra%20all'altra.htm

Apparently G.B.Borsalino was a cousin of the Borsalino main family business(I think a son of Lazzaro one of the founding brothers. This was absorbed into the main firm in 1937. I'll try to find a link to this info I discovered a few weeks ago.

Apparently absorbed in the mid 1930's Giuseppe was the famous founder and Lazzaro his brother. I know there is some info in English and a film of the G.B.Borsalino fu Lazzaro factory making a Zenit Hat in the early 1920's.
Link about the 1926 film: http://informatorealessandrino.blogspot.com/2008/05/presentazione-della-pellicola.html
More info in terrible translation:http://translate.google.com/transla...lino+fu+lazzaro&hl=en&client=safari&rls=en-us

 

[ScottF]

Interesting stuff - thanks. When I bought the hat I had to run the description through Google translator, so I guess I can do the same with this link!

The seller emailed me yesterday: "The hat is in the road. Ciao"

http://www.isral.it/web/web/risorsedocumenti/25%20aprile_%20da%20una%20guerra%20all'altra.htm

Apparently absorbed in the mid 1930's Giuseppe was the famous founder and Lazzaro his brother. I know there is some info in English and a film of the G.B.Borsalino fu Lazzaro factory making a Zenit Hat in the early 1920's.
Link about the 1926 film: http://informatorealessandrino.blogspot.com/2008/05/presentazione-della-pellicola.html
More info in terrible translation:http://translate.google.com/transla...lino+fu+lazzaro&hl=en&client=safari&rls=en-us

 

[handlebar bart]

A picture worth a repeat:eusa_clap Fantastic photo Paddy, that thin ribbon is a great look on you

 

[Baron Kurtz]

http://www.isral.it/web/web/risorsedocumenti/25%20aprile_%20da%20una%20guerra%20all'altra.htm

Ahaaaaa. Eureka! :eusa_clap

So, G.B. Borsalino fu Lazarro & C. was not the Borsalino we know today (the fondata nel 1857 sweatbands; Borsalino Giuseppe e Fratello, henceforth to be referred to as "Borsalino"). It was a different company which also made hats in Alessandiria, and founded in 1906. This now makes sense vis a vis the different grand prizes (Paris, 1900 vs Turin 1911) being bragged about.


If i read that website aright, and i think i do, the financial crisis of the early 1930s struck both companies quite hard as funding became scarcer and countries around Europe and the rest of the world put up import duty etc. and of course people were buying less. G.B. Borsalino fu Lazarro & C. was put in liquidation in 1933, and Borsalino Giuseppe e Fratello bought them out and Incorporated under the name Giuseppe Borsalino ("Borsalino").


So anyway, all this places our hats - those of us who have G. B. Borsalino fu Lazarro & C. hats - at definitely before 1933. (Or, the sweatbands were made before 1933, and given the tensions between the companies, i would be surprised if the newly incorporated compay put out hats with the defeated company's name on them after incorporation.


I wonder if this negates membership of the Brotherhood? God help the man who only has a G.B. Borsalino fu Lazarro & C. hat

bk

 

[ScottF]

Ahaaaaa. Eureka! :eusa_clap

So, G.B. Borsalino fu Lazarro & C. was not the Borsalino we know today (the fondata nel 1857 sweatbands; Borsalino Giuseppe e Fratello, henceforth to be referred to as "Borsalino"). It was a different company which also made hats in Alessandiria, and founded in 1906. This now makes sense vis a vis the different grand prizes (Paris, 1900 vs Turin 1911) being bragged about.


If i read that website aright, and i think i do, the financial crisis of the early 1930s struck both companies quite hard as funding became scarcer and countries around Europe and the rest of the world put up import duty etc. and of course people were buying less. G.B. Borsalino fu Lazarro & C. was put in liquidation in 1933, and Borsalino Giuseppe e Fratello bought them out and Incorporated under the name Giuseppe Borsalino ("Borsalino").


So anyway, all this places our hats - those of us who have G. B. Borsalino fu Lazarro & C. hats - at definitely before 1933. (Or, the sweatbands were made before 1933, and given the tensions between the companies, i would be surprised if the newly incorporated compay put out hats with the defeated company's name on them after incorporation.


I wonder if this negates membership of the Brotherhood? God help the man who only has a G.B. Borsalino fu Lazarro & C. hat

bk

Thanks bk and rlk, for locating all this - very interesting stuff.

Here's a translation of some of the relevant parts referenced by bk.

Even worse was to reveal the crisis for the UK Borsalino was Lazarus (800,000 hats sold in 1929, 200,000 in 1933 strongly exposed to banks and a financial accounting and gestures not entirely linear, so that 1933, when still had 950 employees, was placed in liquidation. The story of After saving and management of IRI from 1933 to 1935, was completed the following year with the incorporation by the Giuseppe Borsalino.

.....

In clothing, the Borsalino and Brother Joseph, leader of the state capital, went, starting from 1923, in a new round of expansion after the one already known in the Giolitti period and that too based largely on international markets. The production, which had already reached the million and a half of hats in 1925, came to about 2 million in 1929, exports went from 672,000 hats in 1921 to 1,402,000 in 1929, most records ever touched, employment exceeded ì 2200 employees. Was the most troubled history of Borsalino was Lazarus (founded 1906) but in the second half of the decade, it stood on a production of 700 - 850 thousand hats a year with a thousand employees.

 

[rlk]

G.B.Borsalino fu Lazzaro with wind chord

An aside to bk, this 1933 or earlier Italian made and sold hat seems to have a windchord. This sold recently on ebay perhaps to a FL'er.

 

[Dinerman]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-G-B-BORSALINO-Fu-Lazzaro-Brown-Fedora-Hat-7-5_W0QQitemZ200326760638QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item200326760638&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2|65%3A13|39%3A1|240%3A1318

That's not 1933 or prior. That's 1960s at the oldest.

 

[rlk]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-G-B-BORSALINO-Fu-Lazzaro-Brown-Fedora-Hat-7-5_W0QQitemZ200326760638QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item200326760638&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2|65%3A13|39%3A1|240%3A1318

That's not 1933 or prior. That's 1960s at the oldest.

There is a problem here if the company ceased to exist in the mid 1930's. I can't imagine they would continue the label as confusing Giuseppe and Giovanni Battista was already easy. The size tag certainly does look like standard 60's Borsalino.

 

[ScottF]

Dinerman, Do you think perhaps Borsalino brought back a short-lived line of 'G.B. Borsalino' 'brand' hats in the late '50s/early '60s? It's been done plenty of times with other products, playing on nostalgia, so wouldn't be too surprising - 1956 would have been the 50th anniversary of the defunct company. Still, the hat you posted doesn't reference at all the 'real' Borsalino company as far as I can tell, which is odd.

edited to add: actually, looking at the label on the newer hat, it does have 'Borsalino' on one line, then the older company listed beneath, so I'm betting this is a nostalgia line hat that was short-lived.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-G-B-BORSALINO-Fu-Lazzaro-Brown-Fedora-Hat-7-5_W0QQitemZ200326760638QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item200326760638&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2|65%3A13|39%3A1|240%3A1318

That's not 1933 or prior. That's 1960s at the oldest.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Could it have been something to do with the movie?

bk

 

[carouselvic]

I agree with Dinerman, that is a very modern hat.

 

[ScottF]

edited to remove content. Please forgive me - once I get into something that involves history, I ask a lot of questions. I'll zip it for a while.

 

[cookie]

Borsalino "Mink" felt description what does it mean?

Yesterday I was shown a vintage Borsalino with a superb felt that was labelled "Mink" and had a XXXXX inside on the seatband not unlike the Stetson OR.


What is the felt made of ?

Pure Beaver? Please advise...

 

[jamespowers]

Yesterday I was shown a vintage Borsalino with a superb felt that was labelled "Mink" and had a XXXXX inside on the seatband not unlike the Stetson OR.


What is the felt made of ?

Pure Beaver? Please advise...

While it is possible to have a novelty fur felt Borsalino made from mink fur, it is most likely refering to the color of the hat. Was the hat a tan/brown? [huh]

 

[cookie]

While it is possible to have a novelty fur felt Borsalino made from mink fur, it is most likely refering to the color of the hat. Was the hat a tan/brown? [huh]

Yes but the felt was so plush..wonderful handle...