The Anglo-Irish War (1919-1921) and Irish Civil War

[skbellis]

Black and Tans

There are a few of us who would be interested in doing a 'Black and Tan' impression(we all do WW2 Brit. infantry), but good information seems to be lacking. Does anyone know of a good resource or website to find uniform specifics?

---Scott

 

[Story]

Does anyone know of a good resource or website to find uniform specifics?

Scott,
Probably this OSPREY book is a good start - http://www.ospreypublishing.com/store/The-Anglo-Irish-War_9781846030239/

How far has the style changed, to this modern poly-blend? It's cheap enough to be sacrificed as a pattern for wool copies.
http://www.britishmilitarysurplus.co.uk/ishop/1069/shopscr39.html

 

[skbellis]

Story,

Thanks for the info.

Cheers,

---Scott

 

[Story]

A SWORD AND dress hat belonging to Sir Roger Casement have been returned to Ireland by the London Metropolitan Police.
The items are now at their new home in the National Museum of Ireland, having been in the possession of the Metropolitan police since revolutionary Casement was captured in Co Kerry in 1916, the Irish Times reports.
http://www.thejournal.ie/sir-roger-casements-sword-and-hat-returned-to-ireland-2011-03/

 

[Chas]

Irish Civil War reenacting, eh? I'm not saying what people should or should not do with their spare time, but is this really a good idea?

 

[the hairy bloke]

Why not?

People do Spanish Civil War, and many are not sure about WWII re-enactment.

Done with care this seems a brilliant way of looking past the hetred and mythology.

 

[Edward]

Longer ago now than WW2 (albeit that the conflict of which it was a wider symptom has only really begun to wind down in the last decade). Juat wait til somebody has the idea to re-enact Afghanistan and Iraq, then you'll see controversial. lol

 

[Chas]

Well, are the Black and Tans going to be abusing women and children and setting fire to villages? What's next? Reenacting the Ustashe? Now, THAT would not be a good idea.

I guess I just feel that there is plenty about the past that needs to stay where it is. In the past. There. I said it.

 

[xt40]

I guess I just feel that there is plenty about the past that needs to stay where it is. In the past. There. I said it.

i dont know. the idea might have merit.
maybe they could provide the entertainment at next years superbowl by driving an armoured car onto the pitch and pretending to machine gun the spectators.
And to keep things from getting too boring, on alternating weekends they could do either an auschwitz guard reenactment or a my lai one although there might be fights there over who gets to play Calley.

 

[Edward]

i dont know. the idea might have merit.
maybe they could provide the entertainment at next years superbowl by driving an armoured car onto the pitch and pretending to machine gun the spectators.

I presume you are referring to the Hollywood Michael Collins film from the Nineties.... a re-enactor would not do that, of course, as it didn't happen that way in reality. The Tans marched onto the field on foot, and opened fire on the crowd with their rifles. (Personally I find that much more shocking, but YMMV).

And to keep things from getting too boring, on alternating weekends they could do either an auschwitz guard reenactment or a my lai one although there might be fights there over who gets to play Calley.

Mn. Godwin, anyone? I've long studied the history of our Island, and one thing the Brits never did was to build concentration camps for us. Yeah, there was Frongoch, but that wasn't quite the same thing. Certainly it was never a death camp. I'm no fan of what they or the Auxilliaries did to our forebears, but it seems overly hyberbolic to compare them to the Allgemeine SS IMO. In any case, there is plenty of the War of Independence and the Civil War to present outside of the Tans. "The Tan War" is really as much as misnomer as calling WW2 Germany's entire forces "The SS".

 

[Blackthorn]

Wow, very interesting thread

I hadn't seen this before. I'm a big fan of Irish history, so this kind of thing fascinates me. I bought a .303 British rifle after seeing one in the museum at Kilmainham, and have read a number of books on Irish history of all eras.

 

[hatophile]

Well, are the Black and Tans going to be abusing women and children and setting fire to villages? What's next? Reenacting the Ustashe? Now, THAT would not be a good idea.

I guess I just feel that there is plenty about the past that needs to stay where it is. In the past. There. I said it.

By the same token, there was plenty of abuse from both sides during the American Civil War,
but a century and a half has mellowed feelings on that.

 

[Fly Boy]

West Cork Flying Column? Sounds like me aul' Da and I after a few jars in the pub!

On a more serious note, I recently encountered a reenactment supplier doing various uniforms from 1916-22. I'll have a look and see if I can find it.

 

[Edward]

West Cork Flying Column? Sounds like me aul' Da and I after a few jars in the pub!

On a more serious note, I recently encountered a reenactment supplier doing various uniforms from 1916-22. I'll have a look and see if I can find it.

If they did an Irish Citizen Army uniform from 1916, now, that would be interesting...

 

[PADDY]

Gents - just tread lightly, using discretion , sensitivity and common sense please on this subject area. Be mindful that it's a raw and divisive subject in that "the fallout" of the era you refer to, is still being felt with lives being endangered and taken (currently) on that island.
Just "be aware" please Gents - Thankyou

 

[Fly Boy]

If they did an Irish Citizen Army uniform from 1916, now, that would be interesting...

Think they might have done Edward, I'm having the devil of a time finding the website - Ironically, I encountered it while searching for 1920s British uniforms (and no, not for Tans or Auxies)! It did German stuff for both wars and Irish stuff. Now that I'm searching for it specifically, the search engine is turning up nothing! I swear I saw it only around a week ago!


Edit: found it

http://ww2depot.com/irish-war-of-independence-and-1916/

 

[Fly Boy]

Gents - just tread lightly, using discretion , sensitivity and common sense please on this subject area. Be mindful that it's a raw and divisive subject in that "the fallout" of the era you refer to, is still being felt with lives being endangered and taken (currently) on that island.
Just "be aware" please Gents - Thankyou

Well said that man. Even over here people get beaten up or stabbed because of the troubles. Let's all hope we can one day cure the bitterness that is behind it all, the sooner the better.

 

[Blackthorn]

Gents - just tread lightly, using discretion , sensitivity and common sense please on this subject area. Be mindful that it's a raw and divisive subject in that "the fallout" of the era you refer to, is still being felt with lives being endangered and taken (currently) on that island.
Just "be aware" please Gents - Thankyou

Indeed, well said, Paddy.

 

[Story]

Black Rock Pictures are currently in pre-production with Irish language historical series, ‘Bású na gCarad’ which will examine the executions of Erskine Childers and several other prisoners during the Irish civil war. The 6 x 30 minute docu-drama series for TG4 is set to shoot around Ireland for ten weeks, starting in July.
Directed and produced by Jerry O’Callaghan (Broken Harvest), the series will examine the executions of several prominent Irish personalities during the Irish civil war. Episodes 1 and 2 of the series will centre around Irish nationalist, Erskine Childers who was executed in November 1922. Following this there will be one episode dedicated to of four other reputed Irish political figures including Rory O’Connor, Liam Mellows, Joe McKelvey and Dick Barrett.

http://www.iftn.ie/news/?act1=record&only=1&aid=73&rid=4283738&tpl=archnews&force=1

 

[Fly Boy]

An interesting article on Dev.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-12848272