Synthetic fibres in occupied europe?

[nightandthecity]

In UK menswear synthetic fibres didn’t really take off until around the mid-1950s. By the mid-1960s they were fairly common and widespread. But does anyone know whether synthetic fibres were extensively used during WW2 in Germany and occupied Europe? I’ve never really thought about this before, and I have little experience of WW2 European menswear, but it would make sense given the shortages.

The reason I ask is that I recently acquired a rather puzzling cap. It’s one of those European caps with side darts and a stiffened band that can be worn several different ways - with the crown straight it is a style much favoured by Communist leaders like Lenin and Thaelman - with the crown pulled back it has the look of a seaman’s cap (a style much favoured by central European workers). With the crown pulled down to the peak it becomes a fairly ordinary wide crowned flat cap.

This particular example appears to be French, and both the style and the label look 1920s-40s era. But the “wool” actually tests as a wool/synthetic blend and the lining is nylon. In the UK that would shout 1960s or later, but it crossed my mind it could be WW2 Euro-ersatz. There might be some support for this idea in that the stiffener in the band is cardboard - as is the label! Thoughts?

 

[Fastuni]

What do you mean with "tests as synthetic"?

A widespread synthetic blend for fabrics during that time was wood-based viscose/rayon.

If you are talking about "plastic" stuff, polyester and ilk... nope.

If it is really a polyester cap with nylon lining my guess would be that it is 1970's or later with an old label added - in other words fake.
Or 1960's... when many garments and labels in Europe still looked "older".
The cardboard as stiffener is no indication of a specific "vintage" age.

 

[nihil]

Synthetic materials were extensively used in Europe during WW2, and replacement materials even more so. But they were not oil based, but rather made from other materials readily available. For example wool was mixed with rayon, which is a wood-based synthetic material. Pure wool was a rarity during the war. In fact, the uniforms of the German armed forces had as little as 10% wool in them, at the last stages of the war.
I know how a wool rayon mix feels, but I can't describe it to you, and I don't know how it comes up in a test. I would imagine that it's different from oil based (polyester/nylon) in that it doesn't melt but would rather burn/scorch.

 

[Fastuni]

Synthetic materials were extensively used in Europe during WW2, and replacement materials even more so. But they were not oil based, but rather made from other materials readily available. For example wool was mixed with rayon, which is a wood-based synthetic material. Pure wool was a rarity during the war. In fact, the uniforms of the German armed forces had as little as 10% wool in them, at the last stages of the war.

Exactly - however regarding the German Ersatz-Uniform cloth... I suppose you don't meant to say 10% wool + 90% wood-based fibres.
I'm rather certain it refers to 10% new wool, with the bulk being shoddy from shredded old garments (wool, sometimes also cotton) plus some percentage of wood-based synthetics or sometimes also rather roughly processed wood fibres.

 

[Two Types]

I looked at the cap and immediately thought 'Eastern Europe', recalling buying a similar cap in Czechoslovakia in 1982 in a style which was probably unchanged since the 1930s. And i have a 1980s Russian flat cap which is similarly 'old school'. Both appeared to have elements of man made materials, were modern but might as well have been 50 years old.

Then I noticed it was French. Elsewhere on the FL there was a discussion about the use of synthetic fibres and i seem to recall early versions being used in tie manufacture in France in the latter years of the 19th century. But I think that was cellulose acetate. So it might possibly be earlier than the 'man made' discovery would immeiately indicate.

Like the others, I guess the key to giving it a rough date would be the nature of man-made fibres.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Night (welcome back!) has no doubt done a burn test and come up with burning hair and a solid melted deposit.

Why wouldn't petroleum synthetic fibres be used in Europe in this period?

ICI's Terylene in the UK and Dupont's Polyester (Dacron/Mylar) in the USA were in extensive clothing and accessories use by the middle 1950s, PET having been patented in 1941. In fact, the ties we find from the postwar era are largely made of Terylene or mixes of it. Given the strong and extensive links of ICI with the European chemicals industry (especially German) in the pre- during- and post-war era, I can think of no good argument for these fibers being unavailable or unused in Europe at this time. Many of the German leather jackets I've owned have had liners (mostly arm liners in this case) made of synthetics.

I will also point out that you may very well have handled these synthetic fibres in vintage of this era, but you wouldn't know it. They were generally used in small percentages in woollens to give their "miracle" properties (think of the specific feel of an early-middle 50s John Collier suit, especially with Milium lining) and did not impact much on the hand of the fabric or its draping properties. The better Terylene ties could easily pass for silk if the tags were missing.

 

[Two Types]

The better Terylene ties could easily pass for silk if the tags were missing.

Absolutely. Early 1950s Terylene ties are splendid. I don't get put off by an ICI label if the size, shape and colour of a tie are right for me.

 

[nightandthecity]

Thanks for the input chaps. The Baron is correct: I did the burn test and got burning hair and a wool crumbly ash deposit, but with a synthetic solid lump in the middle.

TT might be pointing in the right direction though, as the hat came from Bulgaria! In fact, that was my first thought too - that it was 1960s-80s “communist traditionalist”. But if so the highly retro and apparently French label seemed something of an oddity.

That’s when the WW2-ersatz idea came into my head, the cardboard stiffener and label seemed to fit this scenario as well (also the oilskin sweatband - you can’t see it clearly in the pics - I’ve seen similar in 1940s French hats).

 

[Two Types]

I would be interested to see the oilskin sweatband. From what i can see in your photos, it reminds me of the front of the band in my 1980s Russian cap (of course there is alwys the chance that me Russian cap is actually older than i thought - maybe it was deadstock and only reached me in the 1980s).

What does the label say? I can read the 'Grande' but can't make out the second word.

There is always the possibility that the cap was made in Bulgaria to appear French for fashion reasons.

The other question would be, what are the buttons made from? I don't personally know much (if anything) about buttons, but people like BK & Fastuni are both very interested in them and seem to be quite knowledgable.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

"Mode"

What does the label say? I can read the 'Grande' but can't make out the second word.

There is always the possibility that the cap was made in Bulgaria to appear French for fashion reasons.

The other question would be, what are the buttons made from? I don't personally know much (if anything) about buttons, but people like BK & Fastuni are both very interested in them and seem to be quite knowledgable.

Yes, close-ups of the buttons would be useful.

 

[Two Types]

Night & City: it might be worth posting the photos in 'The Cap Faction' thread. It would be interesting to know if anyone is familiar with the label.

 

[nightandthecity]

yes, it is "Grande Mode". I can imagine a post war communist cap being given a "French" label to look a bit sophisticated, but surely not one as retro looking as this? Though the more I think about it the more "communist traditional" makes sense - I can imagine 1970s Bulgaria being as prone to ersatz and substitute as wartime France! Anyway, here's the button and sweatband.

 

[nightandthecity]

good idea TT. It was actually hard to decide where to start this thread....here, hats, or WW2!

 

[Baron Kurtz]

NATC, how would you judge the date on the buttons? Standard 40s/50s type or standard 60s/70s type?

 

[Two Types]

The sweatband looks much better quality than the one I was thinking of.

I think it's quite possible that it was made in late 1940s/early 1950s France, using fabric with some synthetic content. Using an old label.

But equally possible that it is from Eastern Europe, made to look French.

 

[nightandthecity]

Baron, buttons are not my greatest area of expertise I'm afraid....but I've given them a good look over and I'll stick my neck out and say while the design has a definite 30s/40s flavour, the plastic material does look more post-war. Though (here we go again) the button thread is a good quality,heavyweight all cotton thread which in the UK would be more typical of pre-60s! Indeed all the stitching on this cap seems to be pure cotton.

TT, that's pretty much the "either-or" conclusion I came to. Though increasingly I'm leaning to the idea that it is 1960s/70s Bulgarian but that it simply doesn't obey western rules - that the sort of sort of design and material clues we use to help date western clothing don't apply.

yes, the sweatband is pretty good quality. The whole hat is a strange mix of quality and ersatz. Good sweatband, nylon lining. Nicely designed and made with good attention to detail but cardboard band and label.... etc

 

[Two Types]

You like the cap, I assume it fits, and it's origins will always remain a source for conjecture. Sounds perfect to me! Enjoy it.

It's going to look good with a nice old central European leather coat.

 

[esteban68]

Absolutely. Early 1950s Terylene ties are splendid. I don't get put off by an ICI label if the size, shape and colour of a tie are right for me.

Rock on TT, I ''d go with that...great and interesting thread this one IMHO!

 

[Baron Kurtz]

NATC, have you burn tested the liner?

For me, Grande Mode (Great Fashion) doesn't ring true as a French brand, but who knows. Also, the man on the label doesn't look French. I also think it's probably eastern European, mainly because it reminds me so much of these 50s/60s Soviet caps:

 

[Two Types]

Are they those small sized, deadstock Russian caps that were selling on Etsy?