Sunrise Hat Company felt (nutria) and hatters’ tools

[Rmccamey]

Hard to beat a Gannon wastern!

And my latest Gannon: another 220g western nutria in natural.


View attachment 343439 View attachment 343440 View attachment 343441

 

[Rmccamey]

Hard to beat a Gannon wastern!

And my latest Gannon: another 220g western nutria in natural.


View attachment 343439 View attachment 343440 View attachment 343441

 

[Gobi]

For those interested, here’s Michael Gannon’s opinions of the dress weight nutria felts:


The dress nutira felt is nice, it is smooth or soft to the touch, I think "a nice hand" may be a way of describing it. Based on what I have seen so far I think it's as smooth as the beaver or very close.

For a soft thin open crown hat I still prefer beaver. However my experience with the nutria felt is very limited. I have been working on my technique getting Winchester's beaver felt right for that type of hat for many years. With that felt it was primarily about getting it less stiff and more malleable. Trying to get to that point where you can crease the crown without steam and for the most part the crease will stay, which is my personal preference for a soft thin crown. With the nutria I think it is actually going to be the opposite where I will have to figure out how to get the felt more stiff in order to hold a shape. I don't know if "flimsy" is the right word but so far I have found that the nutria felt does not have quite the right stiffness. You don't want stiff felt for that type of hat but I feel there has to be a certain amount of stiffness or just the right amount of stiffness for the crown to shape well.

For a more stiff dress weight hat I would definitely prefer beaver. I think the nutria would take quite a bit of added stiffener to get it where it needs to be for that type of hat. However my experience with stiffener is limited and there may be other hat makers that prefer to add all the stiffeners themselves, I am sure a lot of this is personal preference.

On this hat I was originally worried the brim would not be stiff enough but that is not the case, I think the brim is fine, the crown could possibly use some stiffener but you may prefer it the way it is now.

Thanks,
Michael

From my experience, the western weight natural is also a little on the limp side but it does have a somewhat ok amount of sanppy-back-in-placey. It just lags a little. My main complaints are the thickness and weight. I ended up tearing down and reblocking one of mine. I wanted to try and make it lighter weight so I pounced and pounced and pounced some more, got it as thin as I felt comfortable, trimmed a little off the brim and it's still on the heavy side. I can't imagine putting a liner and a thick leather hat band on one so I opted for a light weight thin braided leather band and no liner which is the norm for me. It's wearable but not light weight by any means. I can't stand heavy hats so that's a biggie for me. I honestly think some of the issue with "flop" is due to the weight of the fur, it has a hard time supporting it's own weight. This is just my observation and opinion so far.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

From my experience, the western weight natural is also a little on the limp side but it does have a somewhat ok amount of sanppy-back-in-placey. It just lags a little. My main complaints are the thickness and weight. I ended up tearing down and reblocking one of mine. I wanted to try and make it lighter weight so I pounced and pounced and pounced some more, got it as thin as I felt comfortable, trimmed a little off the brim and it's still on the heavy side. I can't imagine putting a liner and a thick leather hat band on one so I opted for a light weight thin braided leather band and no liner which is the norm for me. It's wearable but not light weight by any means. I can't stand heavy hats so that's a biggie for me. I honestly think some of the issue with "flop" is due to the weight of the fur, it has a hard time supporting it's own weight. This is just my observation and opinion so far.

Gannon’s comments were mostly about the 150g dress weight felt. It is very soft with minimal stiffeners. It is very…limp felt.

My 220g western felts have all been either perfect or stiffer than I wanted. My westerns didn’t have any trouble holding their shape: crown or brim. They feel evenly stiffened as unfinished hat bodies, but after Gannon finished with them the crowns were thin, dense, and infinitely shapable. The brims are stiffer, but not modern western stiff. Honestly, it’s by far the best non-vintage western felt I’ve handled. The finished hats mostly weigh within 10 grams of similar sized vintage hats (my Gannon nutria are mostly lighter than vintage and much lighter than most all modern beaver hats of the same dimensions). My Gannon nutrias have the thinnest felt I’ve ever seen on a western, they’re also thinner than most of my custom fedoras!

Three of my 220g felts arrived MUCH stiffer: the pewter that Phoenix made me, the almond that VS made me, and the rain cloud that I’m waiting for from Wolfbrae. As hat bodies they were several times stiffer than the other supposedly same 220g western hat bodies. There’s no way to pounce those stiff felts thin enough to duplicate what’s possible with the less stiff felts. They made decent hats, but more like recent overly stiff (for me) beaver felt westerns. I like the 220g felts enough that I’m asking Sunrise about the stiffness of their current cobalt hat body.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

This is my first dress weight 100% nutria hat from Gannon. The felt is from Sunrise Hat Supply and the color is midnight blue. It’s quite different from dress weight beaver. The hat has a great hand and the open crown creases with the slightest touch. The felt is thicker than Michael’s beaver hats, but what I really notice is that the nutria has a lot of spring back. It’s not the dead felt that molds like clay. It shaped very easily, but it needs steam to hold the shape. I’m not sure if I’ll get another of these, but I’m very glad I have this one; if I could only have one type of felt for a fedora it would be beaver, but this is great stuff too.

After not being sure about the felt, Michael liked the finished hat enough that he’s trying to order some of the dress weight bodies from Sunrise for his own stock.

 

[Tukwila]

My western natural nutria is more stiff than what is described here. The top is less stiff but still requires a lot of steam to crease. The brim is very stiff and although Mike Miller pounced as thin as he dared go it is still quite stiff and Mike was on the edge of hitting shellac/stiffeners.

I like the hat, and it is rugged to say the least but not as thick, for example, as my Stratton western which is either rabbit or a rabbit blend.

The 6-1/2" crown and 3-1/2" brim work well and a diamond crease doesn't take away from the western vibe IMO. The Stetson "The Fray" style bone ribbon treatment Mike worked out is fantastic.

 

[Rmccamey]

Looks gold, Doug.

My western natural nutria is more stiff than what is described here. The top is less stiff but still requires a lot of steam to crease. The brim is very stiff and although Mike Miller pounced as thin as he dared go it is still quite stiff and Mike was on the edge of hitting shellac/stiffeners.

I like the hat, and it is rugged to say the least but not as thick, for example, as my Stratton western which is either rabbit or a rabbit blend.

The 6-1/2" crown and 3-1/2" brim work well and a diamond crease doesn't take away from the western vibe IMO. The Stetson "The Fray" style bone ribbon treatment Mike worked out is fantastic.

View attachment 347784

 

[Tukwila]

The nutria natural is a little more brown than the Winchester natural beaver.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

I received this email today. Good news about the hat bodies being a little bigger!

 

[jonesy86]

I received this email today. Good news about the hat bodies being a little bugger!

View attachment 355329 View attachment 355330

What makers are stocking these hat bodies, or are you buying them and sending them to the maker?

 

[belfastboy]

What makers are stocking these hat bodies, or are you buying them and sending them to the maker?

I am looking to place a small stock order but the pricing on them is expensive so not sure it fits my clientele. So the order will be limited.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

What makers are stocking these hat bodies, or are you buying them and sending them to the maker?

I’ve always bought them and sent them to hatters (mostly Gannon). The old 150g felts were big enough for most folks who wanted a reasonably sized fedora, but the larger 160g felts hat offer more options.

Gannon made me a 7 3/4 fedora with a 6+ inch #52 crown and three inch brim from the old 150g felt…of course each hat body is a slightly different size.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

I am looking to place a small stock order but the pricing on them is expensive so not sure it fits my clientele. So the order will be limited.

I think that’s a wise decision. Better to let the wholesaler stock the merchandise as long as it remains available. I also see that so far there are limited colors available in the 160g felts.

 

[belfastboy]

I think that’s a wise decision. Better to let the wholesaler stock the merchandise as long as it remains available. I also see that so far there are limited colors available in the 160g felts.

Yes, very limited. I am going to try a Western weight just to get the wider colour selection.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

I’ve had my Sunrise swathes out and I’ve been doing some thinking and some dreaming. I have a cobalt and a plum in my cart…I even tried to checkout even though it doesn’t go live until Monday. I think those will be my two Gannons for 2022 (I have two more still coming this year…hello, my name is Brent and I’m a hat addict).

 

[jonesy86]

I’ve had my Sunrise swathes out and I’ve been doing some thinking and some dreaming. I have a cobalt and a plum in my cart…I even tried to checkout even though it doesn’t go live until Monday. I think those will be my two Gannons for 2022 (I have two more still coming this year…hello, my name is Brent and I’m a hat addict).

Hello Brent!

 

[Tukwila]

I had my nutria natural 220 gr made into a nice hat by Mike Miller, about 6-1/2" x 3-1/2". I don't see anything over beaver hat bodies, but mine does have a nice, velvety hand to it.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

I had my nutria natural 220 gr made into a nice hat by Mike Miller, about 6-1/2" x 3-1/2". I don't see anything over beaver hat bodies, but mine does have a nice, velvety hand to it.

View attachment 355364

Do you have a modern western weight beaver custom to compare it to? I’m going back and forth with Gannon on a black western and I’m not sure if nutria or Winchester’s beaver would get me closest to what I want?

 

[deadlyhandsome]

I had my nutria natural 220 gr made into a nice hat by Mike Miller, about 6-1/2" x 3-1/2". I don't see anything over beaver hat bodies, but mine does have a nice, velvety hand to it.

View attachment 355364

And more importantly…a pre-1964 model 1894? That’s my guess. Looks too long to be a 1892 and I don’t see signs of lug recesses at the back of the bolt. .30 WCF?

 

[Rmccamey]

That is a hat I may have to copy, Doug. Very nice.

I had my nutria natural 220 gr made into a nice hat by Mike Miller, about 6-1/2" x 3-1/2". I don't see anything over beaver hat bodies, but mine does have a nice, velvety hand to it.

View attachment 355364