Sunrise Hat Company felt (nutria) and hatters’ tools

[deadlyhandsome]

Once I have an opportunity I need to get some good photos of the felts I got shipped in recently. Is it just me or does it feel like these are pounced a little more than the 150g? I only have one more of the black 150 grams in and maybe I’m crazy but the 160 gram bodies feel just a touch softer.

I don’t have any of the 150g felts on hand to compare it to. The only 150g felt I have has been made into a finished hat…and talk about smooth!

I’d love to see all of your 160g felts in the wild.

 

[ngodbehere]

I don’t have any of the 150g felts on hand to compare it to. The only 150g felt I have has been made into a finished hat…and talk about smooth!

I’d love to see all of your 160g felts in the wild.

Well it took a lot of procrastinating and getting distracted, but I finally got around to getting some photos of these beauties. I’m about to block the moss green one for a friend of mine who is retiring from his career as a bass player in one of the best bluegrass bands in the region next month and needs a good hat for the show.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Well it took a lot of procrastinating and getting distracted, but I finally got around to getting some photos of these beauties. I’m about to block the moss green one for a friend of mine who is retiring from his career as a bass player in one of the best bluegrass bands in the region next month and needs a good hat for the show.

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Good looking group photo. The moss green also caught my eye: I’m seeing it with an old copper ribbon. Thanks for posting this!

 

[ngodbehere]

Good looking group photo. The moss green also caught my eye: I’m seeing it with an old copper ribbon. Thanks for posting this!

Copper? Now that would look classy. I’m not gonna lie, I really need to up my ribbon game. It’s the one material I don’t seem to have enough of and I always have the hardest time color coordinating being somewhat color deficient. I’ve been thinking about investing in some of those glasses for the color blind for that reason.

 

[belfastboy]

Copper? Now that would look classy. I’m not gonna lie, I really need to up my ribbon game. It’s the one material I don’t seem to have enough of and I always have the hardest time color coordinating being somewhat color deficient. I’ve been thinking about investing in some of those glasses for the color blind for that reason.

I think the search for good ribbon is the bain of most hatters. I have accumulated about 3000 yards of vintage and I still seem to NOT have the right colour in the right width for a client. But then Art @VS had accumulated 50,000 yards of mostly vintage ribbon (some modern). Hatters Supply out of CO has brought in some modern ribbon that they are happy with but I have yet to purchase any from them. They will sell you a sample card for $5 plus postage.

 

[belfastboy]

Copper? Now that would look classy. I’m not gonna lie, I really need to up my ribbon game. It’s the one material I don’t seem to have enough of and I always have the hardest time color coordinating being somewhat color deficient. I’ve been thinking about investing in some of those glasses for the color blind for that reason.

FiniRibbon on Etsy has some vintage copper grosgrain, I think 16 ligne. Their ribbon is vintage European and is great quality. Be cautious though as most of their grosgrain is Petersham but they do have woven edge as well.

 

[jlee562]

Hatters Supply out of CO has brought in some modern ribbon that they are happy with but I have yet to purchase any from them. They will sell you a sample card for $5 plus postage.

have you by chance tried the ribbon from Guy Morse Brown?
https://www.hatblocks.co.uk/product/galloon-ribbon/

The manufacturer is T.W. Brachers in the UK, GMB sells shorter segments. Herbert Johnson uses the 38mm Brown as the Indy ribbon. It's modern ribbon, but supposed to be very high quality and made specifically for hats. Looks pretty nice on my Poet, but obviously I haven't worked with it personally.

 

[belfastboy]

have you by chance tried the ribbon from Guy Morse Brown?
https://www.hatblocks.co.uk/product/galloon-ribbon/

The manufacturer is T.W. Brachers in the UK, GMB sells shorter segments. Herbert Johnson uses the 38mm Brown as the Indy ribbon. It's modern ribbon, but supposed to be very high quality and made specifically for hats. Looks pretty nice on my Poet, but obviously I haven't worked with it personally.

They offered to send me some samples but I have yet to take them up on it. The issue that arises is good ribbon in 'out of the norm' colours. GMB's ribbon is all basic colours and I have managed to get all that covered. I have purchased from Lalle (Etsy) out of Italy. It is cotton/acetate but it is very coarse/stiff ribbon and very hard to work with so will not buy from them any longer. I keep promising myself to stop accumulating ribbon but then I see a colour I don't have and persuade myself I just have to have that colour too.

My big score other than Art was picking up a big whack of European vintage from Stephen at Leon Drexler. It is beautiful ribbon.

 

[ILB Frank]

I presume the Sunrise nutria espresso is similar to the Winchester beaver brown, but what Sunrise nutria color is closest to the Winchester beaver whiskey?

I believe someone said (in an earlier post in this thread) Sunrise honey was close to Winchester whiskey but I would appreciate some additional input.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

I presume the Sunrise nutria espresso is similar to the Winchester beaver brown, but what Sunrise nutria color is closest to the Winchester beaver whiskey?

I believe someone said (in an earlier post in this thread) Sunrise honey was close to Winchester whiskey but I would appreciate some additional input.

For $15 you can get the Sunrise felt swatch ring (card). My experience is that the felt colors of the swatches is very close to the hat bodies, but variations are to be expected just like with Winchester.

 

[belfastboy]

I presume the Sunrise nutria espresso is similar to the Winchester beaver brown, but what Sunrise nutria color is closest to the Winchester beaver whiskey?

I believe someone said (in an earlier post in this thread) Sunrise honey was close to Winchester whiskey but I would appreciate some additional input.

I have a Winchester whisky beaver felt and the Sunrise sample swatches and Sunrise does not have a felt close to the Winchester whisky. Sunrise's 3 darker brown felts are all very dark and there is not much difference...all 3 are closer to the Winchester dark brown (chocolate). Their honey is much lighter closer to the Winchester Camel.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

For those interested, here’s Michael Gannon’s initial review of the new 160g dress weight felts:

“These new dress nutria hat bodies are better than the unstiffened ones (the 150g dress weight felts) but I still like beaver, especially for a malleable open crown. The beaver felt will hold the shape better. I am not sure if it's the type/amount of stiffener used by Winchester or just the beaver felt itself that works better. I would lean more towards it being the inherent qualities of the beaver fur felt.

However I like the nutria dress weight felt and think it will be a nice alternative for new/different colors and for the larger size of the hat bodies. I should be able to get a 6" open crown and 3 1/4" brim at your size with the nutria and from what I have seen so far their hat bodies seem to be pretty consistent as far as size goes. The majority of the time a Winchester dress weight hat body will accommodate 6" and 3" max at larger hat sizes and depending on the batch it may be less than that.

The nutria also blocks easier and is more pliable, not sure if that is the right term but it really takes little effort to get it blocked to large sizes and crown heights, the beaver can be a real challenge. Perhaps that is due to increased density with beaver which may also be part of the reason it holds shapes better and just overall feels more sturdy. The beaver felt can be quite malleable and thin but still has a certain firmness that I really like.

The nutria does have a nice feel, in terms of smoothness it is close to beaver. I may still give a slight edge to the beaver felt but the nutria does have a soft hand.

I hope some of this info will help you decide about the hat bodies,….”

 

[deadlyhandsome]

If I was looking for a soft felt dress hat/fedora I would also go with beaver (if limited to Winchester’s felt). If I wanted a more vintage like western in larger dimensions I’d go with the western weight Nutria felt over what I’ve seen in the past of Winchester’s beaver western bodies.

I know exactly what Michael is talking about when he talks about beaver holding it’s shape. The nutria has a lot of spring back and takes steam to hold a shape. I don’t mind this on westerns, but it’s more of an issue for me on fedoras. The dead felt that molds like clay…not this nutria. I think there is a place for the 160g dress felt, particularly when you have a large head and want dimensions that aren’t possible with Winchester’s dress weight beaver. As much as I like my Sunrise nutria hats, I agree that for fedoras Winchester’s beaver makes a better hat for me.

FEPSA is a whole different kettle of fish where I prefer the 50/50 beaver and rabbit (and/or hare) dress weight felt for fedoras.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Update on restocking nutria felt hat bodies from Sunrise:

 

[deadlyhandsome]

My 160g dress weight in cobalt that Michael Gannon made for me:

The hat body was large enough for Gannon to get just over six (6) inches of crown on a #52 block (size 7 7/8 long oval for a finished size of 7 3/4 Long Oval), and still enough felt for a full three (3) inch wide brim.

 

[jonesy86]

My 160g dress weight in cobalt that Michael Gannon made for me:

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The hat body was large enough for Gannon to get just over six (6) inches of crown on a #52 block (size 7 7/8 long oval for a finished size of 7 3/4 Long Oval), and still enough felt for a full three (3) inch wide brim.

Thats allot of hat.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Thats allot of hat.

Ain’t that the truth!

 

[belfastboy]

Ain’t that the truth!

Did Michael comment on how the felt was to work with? Any mottling issues he had to overcome?

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Did Michael comment on how the felt was to work with? Any mottling issues he had to overcome?

He said it was nice to work with but he still prefers beaver.

Michael does most of the pouncing when the felt is blocked inside out. That’s where the thinning is done. When he re-blocks the felt right side out it’s just for the finial finish. The brims aren’t thinned down much so I don’t know it their finish is indicative of the entire felt, but there hasn’t been an mottling on either side of any of the brims on my nutria hats Michael has made. I have two more of these 160g nutria felts in his queue so I plan on having a decent sample size when I’m done.

 

[belfastboy]

He said it was nice to work with but he still prefers beaver.

Michael does most of the pouncing when the felt is blocked inside out. That’s where the thinning is done. When he re-blocks the felt right side out it’s just for the finial finish. The brims aren’t thinned down much so I don’t know it their finish is indicative of the entire felt, but there hasn’t been an mottling on either side of any of the brims on my nutria hats Michael has made. I have two more of these 160g nutria felts in his queue so I plan on having a decent sample size when I’m done.

I really want to like these felts but my success is limited.