So what is the Fedora Lounge all about?

[Vintage Betty]

I was responding to the question about content of the Lounge, and framed it correctly by stating it was a personal response. You could have chosen not to read it if you didn't want to read a personal response.

I don't remember the sweater thread you are speaking about, and apologize if my response gave offense. I wonder if by reading it again, I meant my response in a different context.

I never saw the recipe exchange, and many other threads that take place here, so I didn't post.

And I frequently thank the Bartenders, and am thanking you NOW for your efforts.

All other comments I believe we can take off this thead to discuss amongst ourselves if you still consider it necessary as they are not part of this discussion.

Vintage Betty

 

[PrettySquareGal]

I don't remember the sweater thread you are speaking about, and apologize if my response gave offense. I wonder if by reading it again, I meant my response in a different context.

I never saw the recipe exchange, and many other threads that take place here, so I didn't post.

And I frequently thank the Bartenders, and am thanking you NOW for your efforts.

All other comments I believe we can take off this thead to discuss amongst ourselves if you still consider it necessary as they are not part of this discussion.

Vintage Betty

Apology accepted, and you are welcome.

As for not seeing all of the threads, I think that may be why you also do not get the responses you are seeking- not everyone may be reading your threads.

 

[Vintage Betty]

Apology accepted, and you are welcome.

I'm very glad my apology was accepted. I NEVER mean to give offense.
And I truly had no idea there was ANY vintage recipe thread in the Lounge until this moment, let alone one when I ran my contest. I simply found a cookbook and posted it.

It's also a very good observation you gave:

As for not seeing all of the threads, I think that may be why you also do not get the responses you are seeking- not everyone may be reading your threads.

Which begs the question:

When a poster has an article of good enriching content (eg, the stiff shirt thread) how can it be made more visible so it doesn't get buried?

Or is this what the Bartenders are trying to accomplish?

Vintage Betty

 

[surely]

Lincsong: "How about reigning in the bad karma mongers first????"
And you have the dishonor of being the first...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lincsong
Perhaps the "informative" threads are withering on the vine because every so often there is a snide remark that then turns into multiple posts by one person who absolutely thinks he must change everyone's view to his own. So who really wants to contribute to a thread if his posts are going to be ridiculed?

Examples include;

the boxers thread; someone doesn't like boxers, so what do we get?; a dozen or so anti-boxer posts comparing them to diapers, blah blah blah. Anyone who wears them is derided. Everyone should dress like the guy who doesn't wear boxers.

Or a thread about monograms, someone doesn't like them and we get more of the same infantile whining about why he would never monogram a shirt.

A-shirts and undershirts. The same crap again. Some poster lives in a country that gets maybe a couple weeks of sunshine so the whole world has to read about his dislike for A-shirts. Go find another thread!!

"I hate hot-rods! Every '36 Ford should be absolutely original and if you don't do it then I'm going to post and post and post until the thread dies".

"Blue and Brown don't go together" and I don't care what designer in 1935 got such an ensemble to match. I'm going to post and post and post and post and post until every post agrees with me.

Sometimes a guy just wants to post; SHUT THE HELL UP ALREADY!!! and let those who are interested in said topic have an intelligent conversation without the negative moron chiming in every other post.

It's these types of posts that are driving people away from posting intelligently on the Lounge, not threads about sandwiches, prostate exams or fake melons.

I agree with you on this one. There are a number of people all over the board who are heavy posters in threads they dont have interest in, and post only to show their distain for said topic. Sometimes that are ignored, but stepping up and telling them to shut it is a fine civil thing to do, in my opinion.

LD

Am I the only one here who finds the attitude expressed in these two posts objectionable? While the underlying grievance may be justified, I do not think it appropriate to call down the offenders with such imho juvenile language. Until I talked with the wife I was going to use Lincsongs own words to describe him. I will not do so now, but I might latter; that is if Lincsong continues to use such language, well I guess I just will call him on it again as politely as I can

And for a bartender whose contributions here I respect, to say that a flaming shut up "is a fine civil thing to do" is over the top.

 

[Feraud]

Which begs the question:

When a poster has an article of good enriching content (eg, the stiff shirt thread) how can it be made more visible so it doesn't get buried?

Or is this what the Bartenders are trying to accomplish?

Vintage Betty

All of our great threads are accessible if one will search or ask if a certain topic has been discussed.
The reason why the great threads are overlooked is because people are not looking for them.

 

[Samsa]

Which begs the question:

When a poster has an article of good enriching content (eg, the stiff shirt thread) how can it be made more visible so it doesn't get buried?

Or is this what the Bartenders are trying to accomplish?

Vintage Betty

No, this can't be what the bartenders are trying to do. I suspect a big part of the problem is laziness. I know that I have been guilty of it before, and I am quite sure others have as well. It's very easy to start a thread; it's not so easy to search through all of the archives to find an answer to one's question. What results is people starting threads that could be avoided if they were to take the time and search through what others have already discussed - sometimes to death! (I can't count the number of times someone has asked "how do I know what my hat size is?") This is not an accusation against anyone; like I said, I've done it before too. There is also the problem of new members trying to be know-it-alls when they do not know anything (again, something I have done before - and been put in my place by older members for doing).

Some of this could be solved if someone were willing/able to start and maintain an index for the site. I've started to do this a couple of times, but simply do not have the time to do so. It's a pipe-dream of mine...maybe I will one day when I have more time on my hands.

For now, I think what we can ALL do to make things better is to spend more time searching through the archives to find our answers instead of asking questions that have already been posted. And realizing that being interested in a certain vintage topic does not require posting about it when one has nothing of substance to say.

 

[vonwotan]

fftopic: ???

A bit of an aside - I have not been active on the board for a while and I am sad to see quite a bit more dissention than I had seen in my time on the board.

For me, one of the great attractions of these fora was the courtesy of the other posters and the civil discourse. It brings to mind a New York Times article this past fall

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/04/opinion/04pubed.html

The bartenders do a good job of moderating the FL so I don't think we have some of the concerns an un-moderated board might. Hopefully we can get back to the topics that brought us all to the FL anon.

 

[Lady Day]

And for a bartender whose contributions here I respect, to say that a flaming shut up "is a fine civil thing to do" is over the top.

That is the wonderful thing about opinions, they dont have to match.

Thank you for thinking some of my content is valuable, preciate' that, but just because you disagree with me on one (as Im sure there are many more) opinion, that is no need to make this an 'enemy' argument.

I make it a personal point to mean what I say, and I buffer what I reply with (most of the time). That you took personal offense to my opinion, I cant help that. I think that is one of the concerns of the Lounge, people are taking offense to others' differing opinions, when they are not personal, and rather than ask for an elaboration, people just explode with snark.

*I knew I could of edited that better*

LD

 

[reetpleat]

Three thoughts.

One is that the people have spoken in a way. If threads about how thirties english pants are pleated does not get a lot of attention, and one on sandwiches does, then that is what I will see when I pull up new threads. I am sure I am typical in doing this.

Now, if the owner of the site would like to not be so democratic, and wants to keep it strictly about a certain group of subjects and discussions, then that is their right, but of course, they might well lose a lot of people's interests. So the question becomes, keep it a certain thing, or let it become a creation of the members. Of course, policing it for civility etc is somewhat of a middle ground. The owners simply can pass a rule, but the lounge will lose a lot of members' interest. But maybe that is what they might want. It is a judgement call.

Thirdly, there is not much point to considering the problem of certain threads being ignored and such. Yes, it does result in more or less participation. But it is a normal thing that happens. On the web or in real life, more attractive peole, more charming people, long time members of a group, and people who somehow or other speak more authortatively or more charasmatically, or somethimes the people who never disagree and are always supportve and positive, although sometimes it is the people who are the opposite who become on line royalty. It depends on the group. But the bottom line is that some people get more regard and respect on a forum or in real life. I am dissapointed when I bring up what I think is a great topic or post a great suit photo and it gets no response. But I know that I am not by nature one of those people that is extremely popular on line or in real life. I am though, someone people like well enough, and I do get some conversation and would consider many here on line friends. That is enough for me.

Lastly though, I do think that if "here is my new hat" threads are a problem, the obvious thing to do is ask posters to post them in the show us your hat or suit or whatever thread. I mean, that is what it is for. ANdi if there were only one thread for hats, it would get a lot more traffic so no one would feel the need to post anywhere else.

 

[CharlesB]

Guys...ladies...I got a lot of respect for everyone here but please instead of everyone being so testy, lets all take a collective breather...ITS THE INTERNET it's not your neighbor shooting drugs or weeing on your rosebushes.

 

[Jovan]

Indeed. Can't we all just get along?

 

[Vardeman Sneed]

(*** Severely Edited ***)

I have consciously tried to be a member to contribute to the Lounge, in terms of giving historical photos for reference, encouraging other members to explore their local history, and researching data for reference. Since I've collected over 25+ years, I share what I think is useful knowledge in terms of this Board.

Here's a few samples of what I, as a relatively new poster have learned in the last year:

• Persons read my articles and than don't post ANYTHING in response. No discussion, no comments.

I am currently letting my reference material sit fallow as I see my participation on a downslide, and not for the better.

I ask you who are comparing and complaining: What have you contributed in the last year I've been on the Board? Have you responded to the many articles I've written?

Betty,

If I may, I would like to address some of your concerns above.

Personally, I like when someone posts information that they have researched, whether it be on 'military style hair brushes', 'starching shirts', or 'WW II US military patches'. Facts from research mean much more to me than an opinion, or speculation. Please continue to contribute your research.

I often read posts like yours and comment if I add value to the topic, or if I have a question to clarify a point. If I don't add value, I don't comment. Posting a comment to say "I agree", or "you look pretty" doesn't add value. Posting a comment to say "If that razor doesn't work for you, have you considered a safety razor. Also, here is a link to another forum that discusses this issue." does add value. I also don't quote any more than needed when I post a comment.

If I have a question or point that doesn't need to be 'public', I use the PM option.

Forum etiquette?

60

 

[Smithy]

Invariably when a forum contains 8,000 members, the interests of those members and what they want to talk about is not going to be uniform. I for one have no interest whatsoever in zippers or the intricacies of tailoring, but I can see that this is of huge interest to others and is a fascinating topic for them. Conversely what I am interested in and want to talk about is no doubt incredibly dull for many others. Personally I could not care less what threads people start or wish to discuss, be it sandwiches, WWII history, bootmakers, etc, etc. I read what interests myself and skip what does not.

I understand though that there are many "ooh ahh that's nice" posts which do clog up threads and take up a lot of space. There's nothing wrong with posting them (I have done so a lot) but they are worthless after a few days. Perhaps bartenders can do a cull and delete these, or if it is too big a job perhaps we can have a FL spring cleaning week, where individual members go over their posts and delete the (now) useless "that's a nice so and so" posts?

 

[Tango Yankee]

Ya know, something just occured to me.

In this Lounge old (sometimes very old) threads are resurrected for various reasons--sometimes it's by someone who did a search on a subject, found an old thread, and still has a question or two. Sometimes it's by a bartender, who bumps an old thread back up to the top. And sometimes (like in a thread that was just bumped in the Hats forum) a thread is bumped by someone who had been following it and asks for an update. Whatever the reason, a thread bump often stimulates new interest and discussion.

I for one like this. I've been a member of other forums where such thread resurrection is frowned upon (of course, so was asking questions that the old-timers had long since answered). Here it's a useful tool. What a difference attitude makes!

And for those who think the bartenders are being draconian and not listening to the members, their quick response to the comments regarding the "New Hat" sticky thread shows otherwise. Thanks for listening, guys and gals!

Regards,
Tom

 

[Spitfire]

Just an idear:
If you want to post a "Oh thats a nice hat, jacket, gun, haistyle...whatever" why not pm the person. That way post are not filled up with a lot of ooohhss and ahhhs. And it's up to the reciever to clean out his own mailbox.

Besides that, I am totally behind Smithy here.
The FL is almost better than real life to some and a source of knowledge on very specific subjects to others. Just like it should be.

 

[panamag8or]

Just a thought on the "information" topics, and their demise/lack of interest:

On a popular wetshaving forum that rhymes with sadger & slade, they have taken all of the info posted over the years (as well as new info) and created their own wiki, and actively promote it on the forum. That leads to all relevant info being concentrated in one place where members can research and learn. There are volumes of useful information here that have been gathered over the years, so the FL management may want to look into this.

The fluff topics are here to stay, I believe... and I'm guilty of posting in many of them. With (it appears to me) more and more younger people joining, it is inevitable that fluff is posted, and seems to get more play than collar-specific or hat ribbon-specific threads... it's the nature of that generation to talk about anything and everything.

I like the FL the way it is now, with some great info about things I am interested in, and some fluff to spice things up. The FL is not at critical mass or anything, so maybe discussing a revamping of the forum is not needed quite yet.

 

[Feraud]

Indeed. Can't we all just get along?

We are not not getting along.
The give and take of ideas are part of the conversation process.

 

[scotrace]

Because I have so damned much extra time lying around (thanks Pal), I gave this some thought in between pulling back the rug to watch the floor show and buffing my nails.

Why does anyone teach others? For money? For groveling thanks?

I think some folks are born to teach others, and do it for the love of passing on knowledge, never knowing when a bit of shared info is going to make a big difference somewhere along the way. So let me call on long term members (or long-term collectors who may be new here) to keep sharing what they know, teaching when they can, and learning themselves. Crowds fluctuate and change, the audience is always new, the classroom freshening itself with new students every day. Keep sharing.

And those who may be learning, recognize that, and stay humble. If you don't know, don't pull it out of your ear. Never be afraid to ask questions.

Our blessing and our curse is that we have been awfully, awfully lucky to have several extraordinary teachers! When they grow bored and silent, we all feel the loss first, and maybe belatedly realize that what they do is difficult and time consuming, and that we were lucky to have their input at all. Of course, there are new teachers coming along too. and lots of new students.

And the fluff? Essential to the Fedora Lounge. We're just working to keep the garden a little more free of weeds and scrub.

Let's keep answering the same old questions, pulling up older material when it helps. Someone did it for you, once!

Excuse me. I have some pencils to sharpen or something.

 

[surely]

Bingo

Scotrace: "And the fluff? Essential to the Fedora Lounge. We're just working to keep the garden a little more free of weeds and scrub."

I just wanted to say . . . Hey what's that? Oh no, no; it's the tiller . . .

 

[Twitch]

Every time we get into this mood it basically ends up thusly- There are topic threads. Some people participate in ones that interest them and do no participate in ones that do no hold interest for them. Some people complain about threads topics that they don't participate in. Some people complain about threads that they do participate in.

I've heard this business about a topic not being "vintage" way too often. There is no forum on the internet that does not have an assortment of subjects many beyond the main thrust of the site. Why? because people, any people do not live one dimensional lives. They have multiple topics of interests. Computers, satellite TV, new cars, sports, dining, poetry and other topics have no place on a site that is exclusively devoted to vintage clothing. Is that what all this place is? This place would be a ghost town if all non-clothing topics were slashed.

I found the place by search engine in regards to someone that had mentioned a WW II subject and they were'nt talking about clothes. I saw some threads on vintage autos. Surprisingly as of today there are quite a number of vintage auto owners. I'm into the fedora and perhaps a timeless jacket when i'm involved with events with my cars. I may not be as involved as some people with clothing but rest assurred my investment in vintage cars eclipses most of your collections of clothes. SO? There are other classic car site, sure. But this is the only one where the car folks care to don a hat or whatnot to go along with their car.

I believe the popularity of topics should count for something. There's a poll and discussion about vegitarians. I'm not a vegitarian and have nbever read the thread but SOMEBODY likes it. In a year it's had 337 comments and 3,892 reads. A very new thread about layoffs and recession havs 188 comments and 2,285 reads. But neither topic is "vintage" and technically shouldn't be allowed. Look at the frivilous topic about people having crushes. It goes 7 ways from Sunday after the initial post but had 18,744 reads! I know I only was in there no more than twice so SOMEBODY likes it..

Why has "The #@*%?/ Thread I posted had 675 comments and 8,593 reads in just 4 months!! Perhaps because the multitudes have a desire to release some of their lives' frustration in a safe and fun way. It ain't vintage but it's pretty danged theriputic.

Inthe past 3 years I've killed cancer twice and have really been unable to work. Being home and on the web helps my sanity some. The Lounge used to help most of all . Why? because there were assorted topics beyond discussions about the width of lapels. The banning of political BS cuts the number of threads to surf in half but I know a topic isn't a sucker lure to get some wackjob political nut's agenda spewing forth. There are some nice folks old and new that I care about and have expressed, at least cordial, remarks that they hope my danged medical problems get better. And from the number of discussions and messages I've gotten I'd almost say we should have an ongoing medical thread. There is an interest. Like all threads folks, you're not forced to read 'em. I don't give a damn about celloid collars and I ain't gonna read the topic but I will not whine about the fact that it's not a good topic or that you shouldn't be interested in it.

And we continually hear this dreary complaint about topics straying. That's what they do folks. I have never seen a topic that has continued for more than a couple pages anywhere on the internet not go off topic to varying degrees. Guess what? That's what REAL conversations do in the real world. Moderators do not need to put things back onto the original topic unless there has been an blatant attempt by a web troll to hijack a thread. How often does that truely happen here? Let the discussions flow their natural course. If the original poster suggests a return to topic, fine, but otherwise just go with what it has morphed into.

Again, what happens here repeatedly is that someone horns into a perfectly smooth-going topic and creates a rowe that makes a moderator close it. This little web troll sits back and snickers. Someone began a "show us your guns" topic the middle of last year. It has been informative and interesting considering its 398 comments and 15,641 reads in 8 months !! Awhile back someone from Europe jumped into the topic insulting participants simply to say he wasn't going to participate in the discussion, that had been flowing nicelly for many weeks, and was compelled to say that! That forced a moderator to comment. If he hadn't shut up one interesting thread might have been closed.

It's another example of a topic cruising happily along and it is attacked simply because the person didn't like the topic or complaining it isn't vintage while 2 dozen other non-vintage topics don't seem to bother him. ???!!!

If this site is perceived as one for information only that it doen't need a forum only a list of topic that a web surfer can access and read. I visit sites that have detailed mechanical information about vintage Packards and other old cars. They post reams of data, specs and statistics yet real people discuss mechanical problems and ways to get around them. By the same token people here explain and disucss ways to hem a dress or repair a hat ribbon. But the mechanical/vintage car sites also have general topic material. Sure sometimes there are almost no discussions on how to set a pre-war Packard carburetor and other times there are a dozen threads about cars I don't own. But I don't barge in complaining that they are dull either.

I'm disgusted to the idea that has been alluded to that the "new" people are screwing things up and the "old" people here are the ones who know what is right. I read interesting and intelligent comments by people with 100 posts all the time. I see no reason to construct a chasm which never existed between "new" and "old" members. If those who want some or all parts of this forum or, anything for that matter, to return to "the way it was" that they are truly living a deluded existance. There's enough wishing we lived in another era. You can't change everything including how we discuss it!

Put it in perspective people. I'm going for a 3rd biopsy in a couple hours. The absolulte last thing on my mind will be web surfing ANY site. All else is relatively unimportant!