Side By Side/ Hat Comparisons

[alanfgag]

Thanks for the notes... spending time reflecting on hats makes for an enjoyable Sunday afternoon.

 

[Purplesage]

Royal Stetson Heather Finish

I only posted this hear because the look and the feel of the felt on this particular Royal Stetson sounds like the 40s Gay Prince that Alan posted. Some features look the same as well like the ribbon style made of the same felt material and this one is also unlined. I've been trying to think of how to describe the feel of the felt on this one and when I read Alan's post it does feel somewhat course like the felt under carpeting.

Since there seems to be exceptions to the rule when it comes to dating vintage hats, the size tag on this one says Stetson. Would this be a 50s or pre-50s hat?

 

[fedoracentric]

Stetson also had a model that looks like this called the Railbird from the late 50s.

 

[Purplesage]

I've heard of the Railbird. Now I'll have to see if I can find a photo of one. I've never has a hat with felt like this before. It's super easy to shape.

 

[Garrett]

You can see my Railbird comparison a few pages back:

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/show...-Comparisons&p=1743073&viewfull=1#post1743073

 

[alanfgag]

Two Bone Nuts with Boss Raw Edge

Pronounced "noots" - these are two depression era nutria felt hats that I have been fortunate to glean from lounge members. The Clear Nutria Quality was just acquired in trade with Garrett. It has been lovingly restored by Josh. It has a sweatband LOTXXXX stamp of either 6195 or 6795 and is the older of the two The Real Nutria Quality was an ebay score by Zetwal - I purchased this hat from him several years ago. The Zetwal nut has a sweatband Lot stamp 7033. The clear nut has been carefully cleaned and may show us the original color these hats displayed when new. The real nut has seen little if any wear, but shows the patina and moth bites from age and storage. I would estimate the era of production for these hats based on sweatband lot stamp to be late 1920s to mid/late 1930s. Both hats feature the Boss Raw Edge mark (with subtle variations) which was in use for many years prior and the subject of infringement action (won successfully by Stetson) in 1919. Clear represented the highest grade/price in Stetson's nutria felt line-up, surpassed only by clear beaver.

The felt is of fine quality with a soft finish, though the Real Nut western is stiffer. The following photos show the deflection when these 5.5 oz. hats are held by their brim:

Neither hat displays the claylike memory of a high end beaver felt.
Though both Boss Raw Edges display a cut brim edge, the clear nut is rolled and real nut has a gentle rise treated with a decorative trim ribbon sewn underneath.

The brim width on both hats is 3.5" The real nut is finished with a 6 cord western ribbon, the clear nut with a 1 3/4" dress ribbon with simple bow of the same style as my massive furry brown clear nut.

Inside, both hats are finished with brilliant red liners and detailed crown imprints. The clear nut uses a fabric that feels like silk. The real nut feels like a cellulose acetate. The white piping around the crown of the clear nut liner does not appear on the real nut but it is a feature on my later (c.1940) 5X clear beaver - perhaps reserved for the more expensive hat?

(continued below)...

 

[alanfgag]

Note the sweatband on the newer and less expensive real nut... this is one beautiful leather. The stitching that attaches the sweat to the reed is sewn with 24 stitches to the inch. The clear nut has 16 stitches/inch. By the 1950s, most hats would use 12 stitches/inch. Both nuts use a soft 2 1/8" sweat with a rolled edge.

Though Josh has resewn the original sweatband as part of his renovation, I assume the taped rear seam is original. No traces of a size tag remain. The real nut has a sewn rear seam and the early Stetson gold foil keyhole size tag.

The custom store imprints both use a variation of the decorative tail flourish.

Different blocks and depths are shown on the manufacturing tag. Finished by Jenny and Suebeth... does anyone have two hats with the same signature on the tag? Perhaps we can find out more about them by scouring the Hatbox?

 

[splintercellsz]

Absolutely perfect, Alan. Thank you so much for sharing those beautiful hats.

 

[ManofKent]

Alan - thanks for that detailed comparison. Both are fine looking hats.

 

[fedoracentric]

Now THAT is the way to do a side-by-side post. Good job, Alan.

 

[Mr.Astor]

Beautiful presentation and two beautiful hat's Thank you Alan

 

[Joao Encarnado]

Two amazing hats!!

 

[rclark]

Beautiful hats!

 

[mayserwegener]

Alan, Fantastic comparison piece. The photos show super detail. I really enjoy seeing those brilliant liners!

 

[DJH]

Very cool indeed, Alan. These two hats must be among the stars of your collection and it is a treat to see them side by side.

It is obvious that Stetson intended these to be top rated products that would stand the test of time - all the details are so nicely done. I love those red liners!

Thanks for posting, I really enjoyed this one!

 

[TheDane]

As always a super interesting and detailed comparison, Alan! The "Real" sweat is stunning! Love the surface and deep embossings/gold-stampings!

I often wonder, when we discuss sweatbands on TFL, though. I know that many early sweats were sewn with stitch-distances of down to 1mm - contrary to modern sweats with substantially fewer stitches per inch. It seems like the close stitches are much more coveted by collectors, but I've never completely understood, why.

Every leather craftsman I talk to, tells me I shouldn't use closer stitches than about 1/8" or 7-10 stitches per inch. Closer stitching tend to work like the perforation known from paper tickets and toilet paper - they claim. All books I can find on the subject say the same - and so do all available sources on the web.

I'm aware, old cars were made of thick quality steel, but today they run faster and cleaner - on a lot lesser gas per mile. Not all changes are to the worse.

In theory, the greater stitch-length could be a progress. All advice on sewing of leather, I'm able to find, points that way. Do arguments - other than obvious beauty - exist in favour of those close stitches, that I may not be aware of? Do we have "objective" documentation on differences in quality ... better or worse?

 

[g.durand]

Very nice, Alan.

 

[alanfgag]

Thanks for your notes... I'm glad you enjoyed this comparison.

Ole, not sure whether more stitches per inch has an advantage - the fine pitch would use more material and take more time. It is certainly a beautiful element if nothing else.

best,
Alan

 

[fedoracentric]

"It seems like the close stitches are much more coveted by collectors, but I've never completely understood, why."

I can't say as I ever saw anyone prize a fedora because of "close stitches."

I've seen some here mention as a matter of simple fact that older hats have closer stitches, but never seen anyone say that such hats were "coveted."

But I agree that if stitching is too close on leather it isn't optimal for the leather.

 

[g.durand]

Here we go.....