Side By Side/ Hat Comparisons

[alanfgag]

Tale of Two Toppers

These two top hats beg for a comparison. The Crofut & Knapp was sold in 1915 to a young man in Ohio for his wedding day. The Collins & Fairbanks does not show a date that I could find, but from the typography on the box label, I am going to guess a little later, but within 10 years of the C&K.

The dimensions, profile and overall look and feel of the hats is very close to a perfect match. The C&K is an eighth inch taller and wider in the brim with a wider ribbon. The ribbon dimension is marked under the sweatband... it might have been specified in the order from the store.

The markings on the crown liner claim the C&K to be made from clear Argentine nutria. Contrary to the many ebay auctions that purport a top hat to be made from beaver, virtually all that we see from the late 19th and early 20th centuries are covered in silk plush. Holding these two hats in the hand, it is very hard to find a difference between them. In these photographs, the taller ribbon identifies the C&K hat.

The C&K displays slightly less shine. Both hats have irregularities in the finish that recall variances in an animal hide.

Rubbing the covering in the direction of the grain I can discern no difference. Only against the grain does the C&K offer a resistance that feels like animal fur being rubbed the wrong way. The C&F feels different against the grain, but only slightly... like the nap of a soft corduroy fabric.

The construction details are also similar. Stitching is of the same fine gauge... subtle differences in silk and thread colors are seen. Liners are silk - beautifully finished and imprinted.

The sweatband leathers are different... both rolled at the edge. The C&F sports a massive 2.5" sweat with a grained pattern and store marking in a deep inkless embossment. The bows are twins.

Opera, anyone?

 

[buler]

Those are great observations. Excellent comparison.

B

 

[randooch]

Well-executed 'compare & contrast,' Alan. It would be hard to top your effort.

 

[alanfgag]

Two TAR brimmed homburgs

I've had this light gray Stetson Fifteen (3X Beaver Quality) for some time. I found the thin 3/16" edge binding an interesting treatment. It came to me in a store hatbox (Harry Suffrin, Detroit) with the original sales receipt dated November 1956. Recently, despite my best attempts at restraint, I added this black Cavanagh homburg with a similar edge finish. The year of this hat is unknown, but it is 195X. I thought you might enjoy seeing them side by side.

Both are blocked to a 5 5/8 crown and sport a 2" ribbon with a bow off-center towards the back of the hat. The Stetson has a very flat 2" brim. The Cavanagh brim is 2 1/4" with a more pronounced homburg curl.

The Cavanagh features a beautiful frayed bow... the Stetson, a plainer jane. The felt on both hats is quite nicely finished but the Cavanagh is a bit smoother and more luxurious... or perhaps the deep blue/black color and timeless finishing is influencing me here. The brims on both are flexible but the felt is not going to hold a front pinch without being coaxed with steam. I like the Stetson with a diamond crease and deep front pinches. The Cavanagh I will wear unpinched with a center dent.

The thin edge binding is sewn through in typical Stetson OR style. The Cavanagh has an impressive blind stitch, invisible unless you unroll the brim to see the inside.

Inside finishing is nice in both hats. Stetson had moved to its maple leaf logo and plastic/cello crown protector. The Cavanagh customer used less pomade I guess. The sweatband shows nothing other than the three initials of the purchaser who likely bought this hat from the 47th St. store.

 

[Chepstow]

Alan, you know I am a fan of Homburgs and both Hats in this comparison are stunning. You can be proud!
Thanks for this great write up and the beauty photos!

 

[mikespens]

Easy to see why you couldn't resist the Cavanagh Alan, it's stunning.

 

[alanfgag]

Thank you for the comments... I hope you will add some hat essays to this thread.

Mike, I've owned several Cavanagh soft hats hoping to find one that I could get excited about. This one comes closest so far. No bids on it the first time I watched it... when it was relisted my resistance was weakened.

 

[Landman]

Alan, great comparisons. Thanks for taking the time to do them.

I love your Dunlap Wanderer. Something about that hat, every time I see a picture of it I'm more impressed with it.

 

[alanfgag]

Thank you Mike.

 

[alanfgag]

The Finest Belly Locks?

If you grew up Jewish and in NYC, you knew that the finest lox was belly lox. Here on the lounge, we focus more on beaver than salmon... and the cream of the crop is clear undyed silver belly beaver. Many hat companies made a top of the line hat from this fur, separating it from lesser hats by a scale of X's or a price derived name... the one hundred. Leading the pack are the clear beaver quality hats from Stetson.

I had a quiet day today to consider the clear beaver Stetsons in my collection. I brought them all down to the kitchen to compare and took them outside for some natural light photographs.

They are, starting from the top and proceeding clockwise:

1. Stetson 5X Clear Beaver Quality/ circa 1940 and perhaps late 30s - definitely pre-war. A higher priced 7x was sold by Stetson at this time. How does this hat compare to the top of the line offering?

2. Stetson 7X Clear Beaver Quality mode edge unlined and ventilated dress hat (my name - the Intrigue)/ post-war to late 1940s. This hat has some staining to the felt that defied the cleaning methods at Optimo. Whether the deep yellow beige is close to the original color is unknown.

3. Stetson 100/ mid 1960s.

4. Stetson 7X Clear Beaver Quality western. 1950s. Maple leaf logo on sweatband, no protector on the liner crown.

5. Stetson 7X Clear Beaver Quality Open Road/ early - mid 1950s with embroidered last drop liner.

6. Stetson 7X Clear Beaver Quality dress western/ circa 1950

I admit a bias towards the qualities found in earlier hats. These examples span 25-30 years. In this review I wanted to confront my prejudice head on... to see and feel how the hats compare in the hand.

First, the finish on each of these hats is smooth as a baby's butt... or as smooth as I remember a baby's butt being. It's been a while. If there was a finer finish than the 5X in 1940, I would love to feel it. With eyes closed and without flexing the felt, I could not discern a difference between them.

(right or control click to see at full resolution)

The colors show a range that one would expect in a natural felt... but they are remarkably close in their variations on warm gray.

The 7X western and Stetson 100 show the widest difference.

I had wanted to perform a scientific analysis of the flexibility of the felt and actually experimented using a 200g scale weight to display the give in brim and crown. But there are too many variables. The felt thickness and weight of these hats vary. The 7X dress western is the lightest weight hat and displays more flexibility than its brothers. The 100 is definitely stiffer, but the brim does snap nicely. All feature the moldable clay quality that is so hard to describe if you haven't held a 7X or 100 in your hand - and so prized. The raw edged western begins to show the stiffness that has morphed to rigidness in Stetson westerns today. The 5X is a substantial hat but supple. It retains the qualities of western hats from earlier in the 20th century.

All of these hats represent the finest Stetson craftsmanship of their time. If there was anything put into the Stetson 100 that was neglected on the 7XCB, (beyond the suitcase) I cannot find it. Over the years from the late 1930s to the mid 1960s, high quality Stetson hats adopted a stiffer aesthetic but retained the fine pouncing and ribbon finishes of the earlier years. Crowns became a little lower and more tapered. It is easier to see the changes in the finishing. Sweats become thicker and firmer and shrink from 2 1/8" to 1 7/8". Stitches become wider spaced. Silk liners become synthetic during the war years and do not return afterwards. Crown liners take on postwar suburban antiseptic protection - first in vinyl and then in clear plastic. A wealth of pictures and additional discussion can be found in the Stetson Think Tank. I'll leave you will one picture from my 5X thread to illustrate the subtle qualities that did not withstand the test of time and which keep me coming back to those deadly ebay searches for a pristine pre-war Stetson. But all things considered, the high end Stetson hats remained pretty damn good into the 1960s.

 

[mikespens]

Nicely done Alan and a swell and enviable collection of SBBs. Certainly makes me jealous. Good luck resisting more but I'd bet against it........

 

[alanfgag]

Thanks Mike. I'm trying to resist all... but it's hard.

 

[EggHead]

That is one fine collection Alan. :eusa_clap

 

[countryclubjoe]

Alan

In the words of my Grandson, TOTALLY AWESOME. Alan thank you for sharing.
Best regards
CCJ

 

[Chepstow]

Alan, wonderful collection! sharp hats all! Thanks Alan, you do a great job with your comparison!

 

[newturnofphrase]

Modern brown Lock and modern black Christys. Photo inspired by Alan's great top hat comparison.

Neither is as good as vintage. The Lock bowler has a better shaped crown, and is made of lighter, superior felt that's closer to the classic stuff. The Lock crown is a solid 1/2 inch higher, and is rounder. Unfortunately, the Lock brim is softer than the crown, machine stitched, and a little too wide. However, this makes it very easy to modify the curl. The Christys has stronger, thicker felt, but it has a squarish peg-like crown shape. The Christys brim ribbon is drop-stitched and looks better.

The Lock wins because it has better shape and materials, but neither holds a candle to vintage.

Edit: re: Alan's comment, the new (2012) and the old (1950s or 1960s) :

 

[alanfgag]

Well done, NToP. I haven't handled a new bowler, but the close-up of the felt is telling and helps me appreciate the vintage derbies I've been fortunate to acquire. Thanks for sharing these reflections.

 

[newturnofphrase]

Thanks Alan, I agree. I just had a chance to look at your epic silver belly post. Thanks generally for keeping the quality of this forum so high.

 

[mayserwegener]

J. Hückel´s Söhne (JHS) were famous for their Velour hats but they also made fantastic Melone (German for Bowler, Derby). I know JHS made at least three models of Melone, the Plume, Flexible and Elastic. The Plume was the lightest at 126 grams. They have a longer nap that produces a very nice finish. The felt make up is probably a combination of rabbit, hare and maybe some nutria.

From left to right, Plume made for Breiter Munich (126 grams), Flexible (152 grams), Plume (126 grams). I am pretty sure all three are from the same time period of the 1930s.

 

[randooch]

A triple treat, there, Steve.

(The 3-cushion couch is a perfect backdrop, too.)