Retro-extremists? What are we called?

[reetpleat]

Ask and ye shall receive:

http://nymag.com/nymetro/shopping/features/15246/index2.html

Perhaps it is also important to note a difference between those adopting a lifestyle different from their own, as opposed to those who are just trying to revive or continue the lifestyle of their youth. Very different mentalities involved, although the end results might not be.

 

[reetpleat]

Perhaps it is a different thing altogether, but I think there may be a place for those who, while not entirely immersed in a different culture, or turn their back on the modern, devote a fair amount of their time and effort in some way recreating a vintage lifestyle.

For example, while I drove a newish car and did not collect furniture, I spent five years wearing nothing but vintage, going out swing dancing five or six nights a week, hanging out in bars with other vintage people, and pretty much had little to do with most non vintage people. But i loved collecting and wearing the clothes, and going out seeing bands and dancing. I did not care to read vintage literature or even watch old movies all that much. but i devoted a pretty significant part of my life to a vintage lifestyle.

At any rate, I vote against atavist for above reasons. too confusing and esoteric. I kind of like anachronist. Sounds like it might be better suited to steam punks though.

I would call someone into a certain vintage era a vintage person. But that might not be clear to many people.

I would define the action as living a vintage lifestyle. But not sure if "person who lives a vintage lifestyle" or "vintage lifestyle liver" quite does it. Perhaps a vintage lifestylist.

 

[reetpleat]

Here's a big "NO" to "anachronist" and here's why: there is a formal reenactment group called The Society for Creative Anachronism and they are generally looked down upon by so-called real reenactors. They started out as a LARPing party hosted by some UC Berkley professors. Calling anything an anachronist or anachronism automatically calls the SCA to mind.

Great point. I know people in the SCA, and respect it just fine. But that is kind of different from what we do. Although, it begs the question, what is the cut off year. 1900, 1800? Who knows. But yes, i vote against anachronists, lest we be confused with rennaisance fair people. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Thinking more about it, here's another possible definition of the sort of hard-core types that the Senator was trying to find a word for: A non-Atavist puts Miracle Whip on a Spam sandwich to be ironic. An Atavist puts Miracle Whip on a Spam sandwich because she *likes* it.

 

[vitanola]

You wouldn't do a very good job of carving out a distinctive identity for a Chevrolet by trying to get people to call it a Ford.

Correct. FRONTENAC would be a better identity for a Chevrolet, particularly as applied to a Ford.




Please forgive me. I couldn't help myself.

 

[Chas]

re: Anachronist vs Society for Creative Anachronism.

I reiterate. Nobody has proprietary interest in a word. Not that I'm campaigning for the word itself. I wouldn't pull a hair for one choice or the other.

How about "Gabardine Mafia"? Maybe not....too Columbine.

I will continue to use vintage. It sort of works....sort of.

 

[Flat Foot Floey]

Writing a manifesto is so Dada! We should include more confusion definitions lol

Groszartig :eusa_clap

 

[J. M. Stovall]

Why don't we just call ourselves "Fedora Loungers", that should cover just about everyone.

 

[Tango Yankee]

Why don't we just call ourselves "Fedora Loungers", that should cover just about everyone.

Works for me!!! :eusa_clap Or how about "Flounger?" lol

One problem we're running into here is that there doesn't seem to be a word to fit an interest in the near-past. Vintage, as has been pointed out, has it's roots in wine. It's not until the third definition that you get "a: a period of origin or manufacture <a piano of 1845 vintage> b: length of existence.

I thought perhaps antiquarian would work, as Wikipedia defines it as "an aficionado of antiquities or things of the past." But Websters simply says "one who collects or studies antiquities." Antiquities is defined as ancient times, especially : those before the Middle Ages. So a bit before our time.

Atavist is an organism that has the characteristics of a more primitive type of that organism.

Retro, on the other hand, is "relating to, reviving, or being the styles and especially the fashions of the past: fashionably nostalgic or old-fashioned <a retro look>.

Short of making up a word to use (and hey, retro itself only dates to 1974 according to Webster) it would seem that Retro is the closest. It seems that retrophile as J.M. Stovall also posted (if someone else posted it first, my apologies for the oversight) would work. Again, according to Websters, -phile means "lover : one having an affinity for or a strong attraction to."

Cheers,
Tom

 

[Senator Jack]

I just want everyone to know that I've digested every post we've had here, and I sincerely thank you for your thoughts.

Though I'm still not one hundred per cent with 'Atavist', simply because of the connotations of 'Primitivism', I can't rule it out on the basis of it being too esoteric. A word gets claimed by a group and it takes on a new meaning; it happens every day. When I was a kid, 'booty' was an archaic term for pirate's treasure, and now it's a derrière. Recently, I was shocked when Mr. Bern told me I should no longer talk about having my trousers 'pegged', the new meaning of which you will not find in your Funk & Wagnall's.

As for the temporal line between an Anachronist and what we do, I think that needs to be defined. Because of the simplicity of the clothing, I think a male can get away with being an Edwardian Atavist (and certainly, we're seeing the resurgence of that style today) but with the feathers and bustles and whatnot, a woman might have a more difficult time of it. There comes a point of total impracticality. A medieval Anachronist, for example, can't live the life every day for he would need cauldrons and a fireplace to cook in, not to mention a horse to get around. True, some may claim that my using a 66 Mustang as a daily driver is impractical, but i can fix the thing when it does break down on the side of the road, which, unfortunately, happens too often. And speaking of autos, is it too impractical for a 20s Atavist to use a period Ford as a daily driver? For local driving, I should think not, but a highway trip might be pushing the boundaries.

So what is the time frame we're talking here? Thoughts, please.

Kind regards,

Jack

 

[LizzieMaine]

There was a quantum cultural change after the first World War -- and that being so, I think post-WW1 ought to be considered the cutoff point. In a lot of ways, Edwardian/"Gay-90s" atavism probably has more in common with Civil War reenactment than the 20th-century sort -- it's something that is, as you say, a good bit less practical the further back on the timeline you go and becomes more of a special-occasion/fashion thing than a dedicated everyday way of life: while there may be plenty of folks who enjoy and collect the styles of those eras, there probably aren't too many who try to go the whole nine yards with lighting their house with gas, keeping their food in a larder instead of a refrigerator, owning a horse instead of a car, etc. As was said early in the thread, Atavism, for want of a better term, isn't just a matter of enjoying the look.

So I'd anyone who pursues a full-time life pattern based on any era from 1919 to, what, 1980 might qualify for purposes of what the Senator seems to be looking for in coming up with the term.

 

[Senator Jack]

If you're joining us late in this discussion, I urge you to read the first twenty posts or so carefully, if not every post, because we've already covered a lot of ground.

Anything relating to Golden Era or this site specifically needs to be ruled out simply because the term has to encompass the members of this subculture that may be centered in other eras. Again, there are 70s and 80s throwbacks out there.

Regards,

Jack

 

[Edward]

I was young once, and I wasn't any good at it.

lol I love this - I'll most certainly quote you on this!

 

[Fletch]

Writing a manifesto is so Dada! We should include more confusion definitions lol

Groszartig :eusa_clap

We could be the KARAWANE, or the fmsbwtözäü. Pronounced, I guess, fooms-booter-zoy. Or the ZANG TUMB TUMB.

 

[dhermann1]

I guess I'll toss in 2 more cents. First of all, I understand why Jack is trying to come up with a label or name, but I'm very leery of it, nonetheless. If you label it, then it's automatically limited.
Jim Kweskin used to call his band the Neo Passe Jazz Band. I like that term.
Or, how about Mid Century Atavist, or Neo Atavist? Also, I'm afraid the term Vintage has already established itself in the vernacular. And I think Retro has taken on the connotation of 50's and 60's Atomic Age, boomerang tables, and tailfins, and such.
I think what Jack is tryng to do (correct me if I'm wrong) is give the "movement" (another awkward feeling term) a certain legitimacy by giving it an identity that people can recognize. There's a lot to be said for and against that. One benefit of this would be to make more people think it's OK, and not weird. And this might, just might, have the more general result of promoting some of the broader social values of civility and class that we like to talk about here.
I think on balance it's a reasonable idea. But I'm still leery.

 

[vitanola]

I just want everyone to know that I've digested every post we've had here, and I sincerely thank you for your thoughts.

Though I'm still not one hundred per cent with 'Atavist', simply because of the connotations of 'Primitivism', I can't rule it out on the basis of it being too esoteric. A word gets claimed by a group and it takes on a new meaning; it happens every day. When I was a kid, 'booty' was an archaic term for pirate's treasure, and now it's a derrière. Recently, I was shocked when Mr. Bern told me I should no longer talk about having my trousers 'pegged', the new meaning of which you will not find in your Funk & Wagnall's.

As for the temporal line between an Anachronist and what we do, I think that needs to be defined. Because of the simplicity of the clothing, I think a male can get away with being an Edwardian Atavist (and certainly, we're seeing the resurgence of that style today) but with the feathers and bustles and whatnot, a woman might have a more difficult time of it. There comes a point of total impracticality. A medieval Anachronist, for example, can't live the life every day for he would need cauldrons and a fireplace to cook in, not to mention a horse to get around. True, some may claim that my using a 66 Mustang as a daily driver is impractical, but i can fix the thing when it does break down on the side of the road, which, unfortunately, happens too often. And speaking of autos, is it too impractical for a 20s Atavist to use a period Ford as a daily driver? For local driving, I should think not, but a highway trip might be pushing the boundaries.

So what is the time frame we're talking here? Thoughts, please.

Kind regards,

Jack

Well, as a practical matter, I drove a 1926 Ford coupe in daily service between 1980 and 1994. It is possible, and not terribly expensive.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

The Hobo Stick Sport-Shirt Appreciation Society.

Rolls right off the tongue.

bk

 

[Fletch]

Not as easy as fmsbwtözäü.

 

[dhermann1]

Which is really good with a lot of mustard and washed down with copious amounts of beer.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I guess I'll toss in 2 more cents. First of all, I understand why Jack is trying to come up with a label or name, but I'm very leery of it, nonetheless. If you label it, then it's automatically limited.
Jim Kweskin used to call his band the Neo Passe Jazz Band. I like that term.
Or, how about Mid Century Atavist, or Neo Atavist? Also, I'm afraid the term Vintage has already established itself in the vernacular. And I think Retro has taken on the connotation of 50's and 60's Atomic Age, boomerang tables, and tailfins, and such.
I think what Jack is tryng to do (correct me if I'm wrong) is give the "movement" (another awkward feeling term) a certain legitimacy by giving it an identity that people can recognize. There's a lot to be said for and against that. One benefit of this would be to make more people think it's OK, and not weird. And this might, just might, have the more general result of promoting some of the broader social values of civility and class that we like to talk about here.
I think on balance it's a reasonable idea. But I'm still leery.

I think what Jack was getting at -- and I think there *is* a need for -- is *not* a term to describe the entire Vintage movement, but a term to describe a particular subset of that movement: those who deliberately turn their backs to a more or less substantial extent on modern culture as a fulltime thing. There are many subgroups under the Vintage umbrella -- rockabillies, jitterbugs, gearheads, and on and on, but the people he was describing in his original post don't really fit in any of those groups, and there's really no specific term to describe who they are and what they do. And I get the feeling that in terms of the general zeitgeist of the Lounge, it's a fairly small subgroup.

I don't see this as any sort of divisive, elitist, More Vintage Than Thou thing -- it's simply a shorthand way of describing to outsiders how a particular person happens to live their life. I've never cared much for labels as a matter of principle, but after four years around here, I can see where they can be helpful in describing how any particular person explores Vintageness, and as a member of the subgroup in question, I wouldn't mind having such a term that would make it easier to explain that no, I'm not a steampunk, a pinup girl, or a Mennonite.