Remove your hat?

[Robert Conway]

I take it off in most places, like a restaurant, someones apartment etc.
It's really bad form to keep it on in such situations, unless your religion demands it or something like that.

I think you can get away with it at something like a neighborhood bar counter, because you may be standing there with your overcoat on, but the moment you sit down, it should come off. The bar in the Oakroom, in the Plaza Hotel, is a different story.

One theory holds, that these days the whole world has bad manners and no one will care, or even know to care. Well, there are a lot of people out there that seem to think that it's ok to show up in a restaurant, with their pants belted halfway down their ass and their hat on backwards, but that doen't mean I'm going to go along with theory either.

The last real hat-check I've encountered, was in an opera house in Europe. But that was a pretty swank place and the girls behind the counter, were also a whole different breed; if you know what I mean.

But other than a place like that, forget it. My hat goes on an empty chair, on my knee or anywhere else it's safe, but it does come off my head.


Robert Conway

 

[Havana]

I believe it was the great gun writer Elmer Keith who wrote that a man's hat, like his most private anatomy, should never be handled by a stranger. Believing that, I don't give my hat up to anyone but I do remove it in churches, restaurants, other people's homes, or anyplace that I deem necessary. It's all based on my own judgement because no one else seems to care. Practicality is also a factor. I wear mostly western style hats but even on my dress fedoras, I have a hidden interior "stampede string" or chin strap that allows me to tie my hat down in a strong wind. It also gives me a handy way to hang the hat from the back of a chair, from my belt, or even around my neck ala Roy Rodgers. I wouldn't recommend this for a premium dress hat but for an everyday hat, it's a great way to have your hat off but still with you and it keeps your hands free for dealing, shooting and drinking.

 

[kools]

I can't go for the argument that says it's okay to have bad manners if others do too. It is disrespectful and poor taste to wear a hat while dining at any sit-down restaurant. I've come very close to walking up to some baseball hat wearing clown and removing it for him on more than one occassion.

As far as hat checks go, if you can't trust the employees of the restaurant, perhaps you should find a place you can trust.

 

[Raindog]

Havana, do you attach the 'stamped string' to the sweatband of your dress fedoras? Does it sit in your hat on unwindy days?


Jeff.

 

[Havana]

Let me see if I can answer your question clearly. I'm not always good at explaining these things. With a needle and strong nylon thread, I sew a small loop though the sweatband and attach the string to that loop and not directly to the sweatband. I use the thread loops because they don't upset the fit and do minimal damage to the sweat band. I do tuck the chin strap up under the hat until needed. I usually get my straps from this place but you can easily make your own.

http://www.aussiebushhats.com

 

[Kaleponi Craig]

I haven't seen a hat check in many years, but maybe I just don't go the high falutin' kind of places. If in a restaurant, I always take it off and put it on an extra chair or under my chair. I also put my keys in it so I'm sure not to forget it. I pretty much always take it off when indoors...that's my mother's teaching that carries on to this day...KC

 

[scotrace]

Well Said

...I don't give my hat up to anyone but I do remove it in churches, restaurants, other people's homes, or anyplace that I deem necessary. It's all based on my own judgement because no one else seems to care....it's a great way to have your hat off but still with you and it keeps your hands free for dealing, shooting and drinking.

Very well put!

Last place I saw a hat/coat check was at Sam & Harry's in Washington DC:

http://www.samandharrys.com/

 

[Bebop]

I can't go for the argument that says it's okay to have bad manners if others do too. It is disrespectful and poor taste to wear a hat while dining at any sit-down restaurant. I've come very close to walking up to some baseball hat wearing clown and removing it for him on more than one occassion.

As far as hat checks go, if you can't trust the employees of the restaurant, perhaps you should find a place you can trust.

I can understand wanting proper manners to prevail but going up to "some baseball hat wearing clown" and removing it for him has less proper etiquette than wearing a hat to a sit down dinner. Especially if you claim you don't want to have bad manners just because others do.
As far as hat checks at restaurants, when invited to a restaurant, I don't think it would be "good manners" to say, "Before I agree to go to dinner there, let me run a background check on the employees. I might not like how they handle hats".

 

[Biltmore Bob]

I took Mrs. Biltmore Bob to lunch today...

..at our favorite Mexican joint. I left my cap on...I could'a took it off...but saw no reason to. I was the best dressed slob in the dive. I was wearing loose dungarees and tan suspenders, brown work boots and a long sleeve plaid shirt buttoned at the neck. I was wearing my brown herringbone B! Wear eight quarter cap. Every other man in the place was wearing graphic tees and holey Ambercrombie jeans and UT ball caps. Oh Yeah, go Longhorns...even though I'm an A&M fan. So I leave my cap on while I eat..who gives a crap...NOBODY!

 

[shamus]

I think it all comes down to respect.

Respect for the place you're visiting and respect for yourself.

 

[jake_fink]

There are still places with hat/coat checks - banquet halls, some hotel bars. Pubs and old-timey restaurants often have coat pegs and they are often visible from every seat if there are not pegs close to every seat. I've even seen train racks, which are very useful.

I will sometimes use an extra seat, the fourth at a table for four where there are only three p), or take over the next barstool, since the footrail is like the urinal, no-one wants to get right up next to the guy who was already there (at least not ususally ). If I feel like I can be tidy and there is a lot of table I will put my lid upside down on the table - though I've been told that's even worse than leaving it on.

If all else fails there is only the lap or the head. If the table is low, or if I'm fidgety, I have no choice at all. Anyway, all of this is a smallish problem against the really big issue of our day. I live in a country where it is cold - I mean cold - for three to four months of the year. Now, try going to a movie on a Saturday night. There is NO PLACE TO PUT YOUR COAT (except under your a**) They can squeeze in as many junk food pushers as any mall food court can, these theatre operators, and yet they can't provide a place to check your coat!?!

Uh-oh. Now I'm mad.

Over and out.

 

[Biltmore Bob]

Look into my eyes...

I think it all comes down to respect.

Respect for the place you're visiting and respect for yourself.

...no, closer...that's right...wha'dya see? Yeah, No Respect...that's what ya see. I could really care less if some pizza faced retard dressed in the latest dirty jeans and ripped tee shirt thinks of me. I don't let some Britney Spears wannabe touch my stuff. Think I'm gonna let her skinners touch my cap?
think again Mandango! I dare some resturant manager to come out and ask me to remove my hat/cap. Now if I'm in some fancy eatin' place and I'm dressed up I'll probably leave my lid in the truck.

Leaving your hat on has nothing to do with self respect.

 

[shamus]

...no, closer...that's right...wha'dya see? Yeah, No Respect...that's what ya see. I could really care less if some pizza faced retard dressed in the latest dirty jeans and ripped tee shirt thinks of me. I don't let some Britney Spears wannabe touch my stuff. Think I'm gonna let her skinners touch my cap?
think again Mandango! I dare some resturant manager to come out and ask me to remove my hat/cap. Now if I'm in some fancy eatin' place and I'm dressed up I'll probably leave my lid in the truck.

Leaving your hat on has nothing to do with self respect.

First as to self respect, I was referring to caring about oneself and ones appearance.

Apparently you have some kind of trouble with people who have acne and learning disabilities and don't care how you appear to them.

I personally wouldn't mind some Britney Spears wannabe who wanted to touch my stuff. Although I'm not familiar with the term "skinners", so maybe I wouldn't like it either. I'll get back to you on that one.

As to the term "Mandango." Again, it's not in my vocabulary. Did you mean Mandingo? The language of the Mandingos of western Africa? If so, I didn't know they were bad with hats. I'll remember that for the future.

http://www.rodney.com/rodney/about/about.asp

 

[vespasian]

I follow one simple rule. If you would take your coat off then take your hat off. Seems to work so far. I dont usually even take my hat with me if Im going to an inside shopping mall as I generally find it gets too warm anyway, though that depends on the walk from the car park. Practicallity sometimes overtakes my love of hats.

The other part of this is that most other people wouldnt have a clue about basic etiquette so if you get it slightly wrong theres only one person likely to know and thats you.

Perfect case in point is last nights foray to the ballet in Buxton Derbyshire. Me in charcoal suit with pocket square and grey fedora from Whitley Luton, Derbyshire. Wife, evening dress and shawl.

a. The restaurant had coat pegs but I put my hat under my seat with my keys in it. So long as I dont move it around it wont pick up dust or rub on the floor. As we entered we walked past about half a dozen young kids in all kinds of hats, hoods up etc etc. The so called, intimidating chavs or nuisance youths. One made a comment to a friend but no-one said anything to me or even glanced crossways. Basically, and despite the cans of lager they were carrying, both tolerant and polite enough to step aside to let us pass.

b. The opera house itself is quite old, very grand and as the ballet is quite an occasion you would think I wouldnt be alone in a hat. Nope. Im the only one in a hat of any kind and this is January! Anyway, no comments, nowhere to put my hat other than under the seat again and to carry it with me to the bar during breaks in the performance. I recieved one nod from a very well dressed chap in his seventies. My wife felt self concious in her evening dress though.

There are a couple of important points to this babble:

Firstly. The only comment I got re the hat was some twerp singing a line from singing in the rain as I put my hat on to leave the place. I wished it was raining as i did so because I would have had great pleasure saying to him as we left. "Getting a bit wet then mate?" Instead I just smiled as if to say, thanks.

Secondly. My wife spent most of her childhood and much of her teens boarding at ballet school. She made a comment some years ago that when she and her friends were performing it was nice to see people dressed up as it shows what respect can be offered to people who have gone through agony to develop their bodies to perform ballet. Its an incredibly strict and painful discipline. Her friends always commented if people were in casual or lack of effort clothes as theyre not just going to the cinema and it just shows lack of etiquette. How self concious did she feel in an evening dress when a good ninety percent of the audience looked like they were popping down to the local pub for a pint and a pie. I consider myself tolerant and if i choose to wear a hat I cant really snipe at people expressing themselves in jeans or a t shirt. But should anyone have made a snipe at me or my wifes attire they would have been very shocked to find a working class man from a tough little Yorkshire town inside the charcoal grey suit, pocket tie and fedora. My grandfather was a gent, but he could make a very noticable and public point when he needed to and I have a lot in common with the man. its awfully difficult not to win hands down when you have the moral high ground. Anyway, basically speaking. The "so called" better classes who frequented the opera that night didnt have a clue about basic etiquette never mind hat etiquette. So teach the world a lesson in manners, dont let it dictate to you because it doesnt have the slightest idea and like a child needs to be reminded to watch its p's and q's occasionally.

 

[Raindog]

Thanks Havana for the strap tips

I know what you mean Vespasian. I went to a few classical music concerts at the royal festival hall in London. I dressed well, thinking that the place would be full of the higher class of people. Instead a large percentage wore pretty much everyday clothes, leather motorcycle jackets and jeans even. In a way I felt it was a good thing that people were relaxed enough to see the concert in anything they wanted to wear, on the other hand it was supposed to be a special occasion and it was sad to see other people disrespecting the orchestra in a way.
It's sad to see and also I think it lowers peoples enjoyment of stuff in general. If you go for a meal then dressing up a bit makes the whole event more special.
Still, for me the hat etiquette thing still takes second place to the safety of my hat.


Jeff.

 

[Biltmore Bob]

Maybe I should have been a little more sensitive and said bugger eating moron...

First as to self respect, I was referring to caring about oneself and ones appearance.

Apparently you have some kind of trouble with people who have acne and learning disabilities and don't care how you appear to them.

I personally wouldn't mind some Britney Spears wannabe who wanted to touch my stuff. Although I'm not familiar with the term "skinners", so maybe I wouldn't like it either. I'll get back to you on that one.

As to the term "Mandango." Again, it's not in my vocabulary. Did you mean Mandingo? The language of the Mandingos of western Africa? If so, I didn't know they were bad with hats. I'll remember that for the future.

http://www.rodney.com/rodney/about/about.asp

...instead of pizza faced retard

I could've sworn the term was Mandango. Was'nt there a Seinfeld episode where Kramer said, "Think again Mandango", ?

 

[Raindog]

Haha, I think burger eating moron is pretty effective anyway



Jeff.

 

[PutALidOnIt]

Burger Eating Morons...

Right, Raindog - Probably the sort that you see hangin' about at that touristy American Surf theme cafe there on the beach at Bournemouth...

But, seriously - IMHO unless you are a rock star or other show biz/art biz, it's better to be over-dressed than under-dressed, regardless of the occasion.

I will remove my hat and usually place it on a seat or convenient shelf, but I know of NO eating establishment whose floor is clean enough for my lid.

I go by the traditional courtesies, but if the venue does not offer hat and coat conveniences, the proprietors are at fault for not providing for the patron. Of course, if you take your pet elephant to dinner, and they don't have suitably strong hitching-posts, then you may have some issues...

 

[Biltmore Bob]

Contrary to popular belief...

I understand common coutesy and decor...however, we ain't gonna change the world. While I was at lunch yesterday, 80% of the young women in the restaurant appeared to be contestants in a belly dancing competition. The young men were hair trees with bangs in their eyes like sheepdogs. Me wearing my hat indoors ain't gonna change that.

 

[Zemke Fan]

My two cents worth...

I think it mostly depends upon the joint you're in and the locale.

If you're in some big city fancy-pants restuarant with huge-stick-up-their-butts patrons and nobody else has a hat/cap on while they're eating, you're going to look pretty ridiculous if you don't remove yours. On the other hand, in a cafe in a small town where the male patrons are wearing "Chainsaw World" ball caps and the women are chewing gum and smoking while they eat, then I think it would be quite acceptable to keep your hat on your head.

AND, before ya'll go all PC on me, I spend time in both kinds of places!

BTW... How'd I do on this post BB? Am I getting this "best defense is an offense" approach to posting down right?