Rank and Patches on Military Jackets - Might I Offend a Veteran?

[P5640blouson]

If you're a vet, you should wear your A-2 as often as you can

If you're a vet, you should wear your A-2 as often as you can to remind those around you how proud you are of your service. Otherwise, some of the most honorable things that one can do or did will get lost in time. You don't want that!

 

[Carlisle Blues]

If you're a vet, you should wear your A-2 as often as you can to remind those around you how proud you are of your service. Otherwise, some of the most honorable things that one can do or did will get lost in time. You don't want that!

The collective effort will never be lost. It takes all service men and women to preserve their country's freedoms and way of life. Some have the opportunity to stand out with an exemplary moment. As such it will be remembered, in the USA, on their DD214. No one will forget.

 

[Weston]

WWII was about maintaining the right to do as you damn well please. Since we won that one, go ahead and wear it.

But, this caveat: don't wear a modern one. Big patches of velcro are unbecoming of a good looking jacket. They are tolerable if you've got your name badges and unit patches on, but since you aren't USAF, you won't have those.

(Spoken by a USAFR Chaplain who loves WWII jackets, but isn't in any way supposed to wear an "official" one.)

 

[tamoko]

AAF does not exist, his "PROPERTY" is not actual anymore. Any reproduction is a civilian jacket not more not less. I don't see any limitation.

 

[bbc1969]

Other than allowed reenactments and media productions; don't try and PRESENT yourself as something your not, and no issues. A Jacket (even one with insignia's-as long as you are not passing yourself off) is not in and of itself any kind of violation. Just like anything else it's all about how one presents and conducts themselves. (I am talking legal penalties only.. not how a vet may feel if you are wearing your patched out or ranked out jacket)

Here are some relevant legal quotations:

Title 18 >Part 1>Chapter 43.
§ 912. Officer or employee of the United States

Whoever falsely assumes or pretends to be an officer or employee acting under the authority of the United States or any department, agency or officer thereof, and acts as such, or in such pretended character demands or obtains any money, paper, document, or thing of value, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

and

18 USC Part 1 Chapter 33 § 704

4. Military medals or decorations

(a) In General.— Whoever knowingly wears, purchases, attempts to purchase, solicits for purchase, mails, ships, imports, exports, produces blank certificates of receipt for, manufactures, sells, attempts to sell, advertises for sale, trades, barters, or exchanges for anything of value any decoration or medal authorized by Congress for the armed forces of the United States, or any of the service medals or badges awarded to the members of such forces, or the ribbon, button, or rosette of any such badge, decoration or medal, or any colorable imitation thereof, except when authorized under regulations made pursuant to law, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.
(b) False Claims About Receipt of Military Decorations or Medals.— Whoever falsely represents himself or herself, verbally or in writing, to have been awarded any decoration or medal authorized by Congress for the Armed Forces of the United States, any of the service medals or badges awarded to the members of such forces, the ribbon, button, or rosette of any such badge, decoration, or medal, or any colorable imitation of such item shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than six months, or both.
(c) Enhanced Penalty for Offenses Involving Congressional Medal of Honor.—
(1) In general.— If a decoration or medal involved in an offense under subsection (a) or (b) is a Congressional Medal of Honor, in lieu of the punishment provided in that subsection, the offender shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.
(2) Congressional medal of honor defined.— In this subsection, the term “Congressional Medal of Honor” means—
(A) a medal of honor awarded under section 3741, 6241, or 8741 of title 10 or section 491 of title 14;
(B) a duplicate medal of honor issued under section 3754, 6256, or 8754 of title 10 or section 504 of title 14; or
(C) a replacement of a medal of honor provided under section 3747, 6253, or 8747 of title 10 or section 501 of title 14.
(d) Enhanced Penalty for Offenses Involving Certain Other Medals.— If a decoration or medal involved in an offense described in subsection (a) or (b) is a distinguished-service cross awarded under section 3742 of title 10, a Navy cross awarded under section 6242 of title 10, an Air Force cross awarded under section 8742 of section 10, a silver star awarded under section 3746, 6244, or 8746 of title 10, a Purple Heart awarded under section 1129 of title 10, or any replacement or duplicate medal for such medal as authorized by law, in lieu of the punishment provided in the applicable subsection, the offender shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.

and a UCMJ citation (applicable to military members and those others whom the military has jurisdiction over)
Punitive Articles of the UCMJ

Article 134 - (Impersonating a commissioned, warrant, noncommissioned, or petty officer, or an agent or official)


Text.

See Paragraph 60.

Elements.

(1) That the accused impersonated a commissioned, warrant, noncommissioned, or petty officer, or an agent of superior authority of one of the armed forces of the United States, or an official of a certain government, in a certain manner;

(2) That the impersonation was wrongful and willful; and

(3) That, under the circumstances, the conduct of the accused was to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces or was of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces.

Note 1: If intent to defraud is in issue, add the following additional element after (2), above: That the accused did so with the intent to defraud a certain person or organization in a certain manner;.

Note 2: If the accused is charged with impersonating an official of a certain government without an intent to defraud, use the following additional element after (2) above: That the accused committed one or more acts which exercised or asserted the authority of the office the accused claimed to have;.

Explanation.

(1) Nature of offense. Impersonation does not depend upon the accused deriving a benefit from the deception or upon some third party being misled, although this is an aggravating factor.

(2) Willfulness. “Willful” means with the knowledge that one is falsely holding one’s self out as such.

(3) Intent to defraud. See paragraph 49c(14).

Lesser included offenses. Article 80—attempts

Maximum punishment. Impersonating a commissioned, warrant, noncommissioned, or petty officer, or an agent or official.

(1) With intent to defraud. Dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 3 years.

(2) All other cases. Bad-conduct discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 6 months.

 

[P5640blouson]

The law is pretty stringent

The law is pretty stringent, but the spirit of it is most important IMO. For personal use seems ok but again the law seems to favor and protect those achievements individuals have earned in the forces. As much as vets may not care if a civilian plays with military decorations, I would tend to feel that it is those vets who don't have a sense of accomplishment for those same decorations to not care who poses them. Try telling some proud vet who experienced achievement in the forces or who saw his buddy die or get injured for America to pass over someone else passing off (posing) the achievements representing the sacrifice of America. I bet it wouldn't go down too well. It is easy for those who have no vested interest in something to not feel the same way about the same as one who is vested. Even though diversity is our strong point in America and results in such juxtapositions, it is the same that challenges us every day. It teaches us to be sensitive and to value each other for our differences. I for one am proud when someone feels the spirit of a military garment enough to want to wear of display it for what it represents. This includes just plain respecting how cool a garment looks or makes a person look from a aesthetic viewpoint. If you're not posing, its just showing your love of all things fine.

 

[Dixon Cannon]

I've been doing this re-enacting thing for some twenty-years - never in that time has anyone ever approached me regarding any illegality or violation of the law. Remember that an A-2 or any other WWII regalia is historical and not a current uniform or representation of of our current military.

We had a case here in Phoenix some years ago where the publisher of the Arizona Republic, Darrow 'Duke' Tully masqueraded as a decorated veteran and went to parties and functions in full military dress uniform. He even had convinced Sen. John McCain of his validity and authenticity. A rival newspaper investigative report discovered that it was all a fraud and that Tully had never served in the military, let alone earned his medals as a combat veteran. He was run out of town on a rail and never heard from again. McCain pretends like he never even knew him.

In re-enacting, the unwritten rule is to never wear decorations that you've not earned in reality. Rank, service ribbons, etc are perfectly ok on a uniform, but actual decorations for injuries or valor are strictly 'verboten'....and for the reasons we speak of here.

-dixon cannon

 

[bbc1969]

In re-enacting, the unwritten rule is to never wear decorations that you've not earned in reality. Rank, service ribbons, etc are perfectly ok on a uniform, but actual decorations for injuries or valor are strictly 'verboten'....and for the reasons we speak of here.

-dixon cannon

Exactly. It's not the re-enactors, it's the POSER who creates a problem. Like the guy with the lack of sense that goes into a bar in the San Diego/Coronado area with a SEAL Trident T-shirt and starts bragging..... and wonders why he just got stomped by some real SEAL's when his story doesn't add up. :eusa_doh:

He is a whole different animal from the fine folks who do period displays and re-enactments. Or the guy who proudly wears any form of flight jacket, or even a squadron or unit T-shirt he got when he donated to the MWR fund to support our active troops.......

 

[Spitfire]

Just a thought:
Back in WWII NON of the guys who got a A2 - or Irvin Jacket for that matter, had earned the right to wear it. That came later.

So you just get your jacket, wear it - and earn the right to wear it.
Hopefully not in bloody dogfights - but by being an example and by honouring the men who earned the right back then.

 

[Dixon Cannon]

Just a thought:
Back in WWII NON of the guys who got a A2 - or Irvin Jacket for that matter, had earned the right to wear it. That came later.

So you just get your jacket, wear it - and earn the right to wear it.
Hopefully not in bloody dogfights - but by being an example and by honouring the men who earned the right back then.

Ibid. Ditto. What he said!

-dixon cannon

 

[Trotsky]

We tend to forget in debates like these that the laws are designed to be enforced against Walts to go bragging about their service that they never performed. Check out the Army Rumour Service wiki and you'll know what I mean. Us reenactors and vintage folk (heck, anybody that likes cool stuff) never have had to worry.

 

[kampkatz]

Spitfire's comment is eloquent, yet concise.:eusa_clap

 

[Fletch]

Could you totally and obviously BS? Say, wear a hopelessly obsolete uniform to a party - say something with knee boots or a fireman-shaped cap - and tell stories about being in the 110th Emergency Shoe Repair Bn.? or the time you got garbled orders and shelled Quebec City instead of taking liberty there? or the time you ditched your P-47 and the groundcrew built a new one out of a P-12 and a P-35? lol

 

[Dixon Cannon]

Could you totally and obviously BS? Say, wear a hopelessly obsolete uniform to a party - say something with knee boots or a fireman-shaped cap - and tell stories about being in the 110th Emergency Shoe Repair Bn.? or the time you got garbled orders and shelled Quebec City instead of taking liberty there? or the time you ditched your P-47 and the groundcrew built a new one out of a P-12 and a P-35? lol

Hey, that's my schtick! Did we meet at a party last week??? lol

 

[scotrace]

There 's an extensive thread on this (that is about to swallow this new one).

Welcome to The Fedora Lounge, Blueishsmoke.

 

[442RCT]

I like patched and painted flight jackets. None would think that I was a WW2 pilot...at least I hope I don't look that old. I did have someone ask me once if I flew for the Flying Tigers. It turned out they were referring to the Flying Tigers airline/transport services, not the American Volunteer Group of WWII fame...matter of fact they had no idea who the AVG were. [huh]

 

[JimWagner]

Could you totally and obviously BS?

There I was at angels 10 over Drambuie when suddenly....

 

[Phantomfixer]

Here is my 2 cents as a 22 year veteran of the USAF. Wear YOUR A-2/G-1/ flight jacket anyway you want to. Just by doing so shows respect to the veterans past and present. I am not saying wear your current A-2 with AMC command patches with senior pilot wings from the 100th Air Refueling Wing, with matching flight suit and the cool sunglasses to the nearest pub and try telling hanger stories and passing yourself off as an active duty pilot OR trying to get onto a military installation, or even trying to get military treatment offbase, that would be bad. Your flight jacket, whether worn in a cessna or in a pub is just that, YOUR jacket, and in this country (USA) that still means something. I would rather see a person in an A-2 with all the patches than see someone wearing a Tshirt telling me to go #$%^ myself,(which is his right too). In this day and age I am sorry to say this is seen all too often. The old saying goes.. "never ask a pilot if he is a fighterpilot. If he is, he WILL tell you and if he isn't well then...."

 

[Phantomfixer]

I would think also that any regulations regarding wearing of military uniforms and rank would only be enforced if a true crime was committed IE wearing an active duty unform trying to gain unlawful access to a military base and or trying to unlawfully obtain benefits/services. By regs as a vet I am not allowed to wear my uniform in parades or ceremonies unless I conform to current military grooming standards ie shave and a haircut etc. How many parades do you see us vets wearing a unifrom and the vet needing a haircut. Yet no arrests were made. To answer to original question "would I offend a vet..." Hmmm wear the patches I think most vets would say right on...

 

[Edward]

Seeing this come up again.... It may be different in the US, but over here every single forces or ex-forces person I have ever known personally has been less than keen to wear bits of uniform when not on the job. When not at work, they simply didn't want to dress in anything they were obliged to wear in the 'office'. The only ex-forces personnel I've seen wearing any sort of military clothing for the most part here in London were those living on the streets, who have nothing else.