Rank and Patches on Military Jackets - Might I Offend a Veteran?

[HoosierDaddy]

Again...in my view...(to be somewhat blunt)...it is none of my business what anyone did or didn't earn. It's also none of mostly anyone's business what I did or didn't earn. In most cases I feel no need to explain or justify my reasoning for wearing anything. I don't care to display any of my actual military medals or rank to boast about my personal service now in civi life...as it was simply a job and duty that I once fullfilled. If there was anything heroic or exceptional involved...that seems for others to decide. I decide what or who I honor..and most usually how I do it. I certainly wouldn't accost anyone concerning their credibility...and would,most generally,not take kindly to being approached with those intentions,either. I do understand that there are other opinions on this subject...and I also realize that there are always those offended to the extreme if something is not done to their specs. I do own my military experience...but don't demand that that earned me the right of credibility cop at all.....
HD

 

[C-dot]

The opinions from military members (current and former) and civilians on what is or is not offensive, clearly are mixed.

However I think it is safe to say that anyone wearing patches are not doing so with the intent to offend military personnel. They may be ignorant about the meaning, or simply trying to honour a veteran or family member.

Generally speaking, any support we show for our troops, however small, ought to be welcome support. Personally, I participate in Red Friday, and wear a rubber "Support Our Troops" bracelet. Others display patches of family members, or use bumper stickers.

My point is that certainly no one is trying to cause an affront - and if they are, well, those people need a good dose of history.

 

[MisterCairo]

Opinions certainly vary on this subject and it is one of personal interest to me. To the OP, it would be my advice to wear the jacket plain or with nose art at the most. Leave rank and unit insignia off. Again, just an opinion and advice.

With that answered (and this is not directed at scotrace, I appreciate you asking the question), I certainly believe that no one should ever wear something that they did not earn. I spent most of my adult life in Special Forces and I am second generation SF. I would not wear a badge or rank that I did not earn and it disgusts me to see folks who do. Nothing makes the ugly creep up faster than seeing someone wear this stuff, especially some obese airsofter or wannabe. If you want to play Army or whatever branch, go see a recruiter.

I know we are mainly talking WWII but I spent 4 years in the Middle East and am disabled because of it. Don't show up in front of me wearing a Green Beret that you did not earn and tell me that you are honoring me. Um, yeah. Different generation, but the same thing from where I sit.

It is no surprise to me that the folks who usually want to justify the use of wings, rank, tabs etc. are folks who have not earned said items or been willing to put it on the line like the folks they are "memorializing."

But hey, it is just one broken guy's opinion.

Rant mode off.

Jed

Again, thank you.

 

[Trotsky]

In response to Jedburgh, first off, I have the utmost respect for what you have sacrificed for our freedoms and thank you humbly for your service. I, unfortunately, failed the induction medical exam and have pre-existing conditions that will keep me out of the service forever. So, all this response is with no ill-intent.



This sounds like my Dad! "I know where you can get all the free Army stuff you want...in the Army!"



There were no Green Berets in WWII, nor were there any "proper" special forces units (in the US) at the time. That being said, I find it stupid that the ENTIRE ARMY is now wearing berets. I think a Green Beret definitely should be included in the no wearing valor awards "rule." There are actually Special Forces reenactment groups that require their members to have actually served in the Special Forces in order to join.



Not exactly. It's a different world, different political climate, different Army. ESPECIALLY when it comes to WWII. Stephen Ambrose wrote about "citizen soldiers," or regular guys that just happened to do extraordinary things. I don't see reenacting and honoring the aging vets of that period to be a disservice to what they did (I have many veterans I consider to be close friends thank me for what I am doing for them). It is important that their stories are told.



Many members of the reenacting community who like to wear old uniforms are either vets themselves or those that wanted to serve but could not, like myself. I don't see this as a problem as long as there is no intent to deceive people into thinking they were war heroes.

And that is my opinion. But it's just like the old saying about everyone having one....

Gene

Damn good points. Damn good.

When I go to an event dressed at my Grandpa, or Uncle Ralph I do so because otherwise, they'd be forgotten. Sure, Uncle Ralph didn't invade Europe or fly a Mustang, but without him and his citizen ilk we would never have won. I like talking about it. I like making sure people remember their own Uncle Ralph. If wearing the same uniform he did 60+ years ago is the trick, then you know what? I am sure as hell gonna do it.
Did we give up when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? NO!
Will I dress up in ACUs and wear a beret? No. That would be stupid and not too terribly respectful.

But I will wear the "golfing" clothes the Europeans disliked so much and interpret history to people that have little or no connection to it. Yep!

I am a "life-long civilian" and yes, I have been called that by two people with damn near a sneer on their lips. I have grown to be rather proud of it though. I do not have to wear ACUs and a black beret. That's because of guys like my Grandpa, Uncle Ralph and my Dad. I see it as an honorable thing to tell their story to people who don't know anything about the war besides a dusty picture on the wall of a young guy in a four pocket OD tunic that died in 1966, twenty years after the war.

Sorry, I don't mean to rant and I don't mean to come off as a hot head to anybody. To paraphrase Gene, an opinion here is like a hat, damn near everybody has one!

 

[Trapp72]

If you want to play Army or whatever branch, go see a recruiter.


Jed

I only wish it was that easy. Unfortunately, I have to worry about not getting accepted because of some current medical issues. I'm hoping that will change soon.

 

[ThesFlishThngs]

Though I'm hardly a WWII scholar, I'm pretty sure it wasn't the Germans who bombed Pearl Harbor. Not trying to stir anything up though.....

 

[Diamondback]

Ms. TFT, I'm pretty sure he's referring to the movie 1941.

 

[ThesFlishThngs]

Ah, there ya go, see. Tongue-in-cheek is soo hard to detect in this medium.

 

[WH1]

Actually the "did we give up when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor" reference was John Belushi in Animal House.

 

[Diamondback]

Ah, there ya go, see. Tongue-in-cheek is soo hard to detect in this medium.

Tell me about it, lady, especially with certain neuropathology that prevents "reading people" even face-to-face.

Actually the "did we give up when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor" reference was John Belushi in Animal House.

Well, at least I was in the same genre...

 

[Harp]

Actually the "did we give up when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor" reference was John Belushi in Animal House.

Animal House, an enduring, memorable classic of American cinema. :eusa_clap

 

[fl1946]

The Great Imposter

Hi AirFrogUSMC...long time since last ct.

My 20 cent input...an imposter will talk his head off bolstering of his accomplishments "during the war." A real vet never need to boast, and we will probe you til you trip up.

Semper fi,

F. Lee
USMC, RVN '67.

 

[fortworthgal]

I am a reenactor, so of course we wear many of the things in question. I must say that I have YET to see a negative reaction from a WWII veteran... and the majority of what we do are actual veteran's reunions or displays, and sometimes parades. Most of the guys are interested in seeing what you have and hearing the story behind it.

My husband comes from a long line of Marines. His grandfather served in the 2nd Marines on Tarawa and Saipan, and his father served in Vietnam, and retired as a Lt Col. My husband TRIED to join on multiple occasions, but was kept out due to a medical condition - something he did not accept easily. So the comments about some of us who wear said items not being "willing to put it on the line" do not settle well with me. Some of us are and were, but cannot. But I digress... He has put together his grandfather's USMC WWII uniform and wore it to a Memorial Day event at a national museum, and several of the Congressmen there (actual veterans) came to ask him about it and thought it was great and very interesting.

That said, for reenactors I do not advocate the wearing of valor medals or anything other than simple theater ribbons or the occasional Good Conduct. When we wear the uniforms, we are very careful about our behavior, and show proper military courtesies. A uniform is not a "costume" and should not be treated as such. One should look the part and get everything as accurately correct as possible out of respect to the uniform and to those who have worn it.

We only represent WWII (and sometimes WWI) so there is not any question of us attempting to represent things we have earned, or current military members, or passing ourselves off as something we clearly are not.

The bottom line is that I would honestly be shocked if anyone took issue with your jacket. I think you should buy it and do it up as you wish! More than likely any veterans who see it will enjoy it and ask you about it, it'll be a great conversation starter.

 

[dr greg]

Speak of the devil

Hi AirFrogUSMC...long time since last ct.

My 20 cent input...an imposter will talk his head off bolstering of his accomplishments "during the war." A real vet never need to boast, and we will probe you til you trip up.

Semper fi,

F. Lee
USMC, RVN '67.

Now that you mention it, that seems to be exactly the case in this DISGRACEFUL episode
http://www.smh.com.au/national/police-to-investigate-alleged-pow-fraud-20091003-ggxm.html

 

[olkev]

As one who is exploring getting into re-enacting, I find this to be a very interesting thread. As a potential newbie, I would like to offer my thoughts and see where they fit in.

As far a the legal aspect of wearing the uniform, the way I read the excerpt of the US Code, I think it implies the current uniform. Obviously, pinks and greens are not current.

Here's a question - If you are a re-enactor, and the National Anthem is playing, do you salute or remove your cap and place your hand over your heart?

As far as re-enacting goes, I think you lose a lot of authenticity when you start leaving things out, such as rank, badges, etc. I think it helps the cause if you are portraying a particular person, family or otherwise and you have really researched that person. For example, if they were wearing a DFC, they should be able to describe what that person did to deserve it and not just wear it for window dressing. They should be able to say, "The individual that I portray is Such and Such and So and So. He/she served with blank, blank, blank, from when to when. I think if you are just making up an individual in order to participate, then medals for valor should be a no-no. (When was the last time somebody ripped those guys portraying Patton?) I think the popularity of re-enacting is indicative of a loss of some of our identity and culture within the masses, that built this country.

If the uniform, rank and badges are being displayed in their proper context AND respect, say for re-enactment purposes, I think you are good to go. It is totally inappropriate to put on the uniform, and say for example, go to a peace protest, say that you are the ghost of World War II and start making statements that could be construed as anti-American or unpatriotic. I'm not saying you can't make political statements, I'm saying if you did not earn that uniform and all of the rank and insignia that goes with it, don't say or do anything that would bring dishonor or discredit upon the uniform that preserved your right to say or do so, otherwise.

This is where I think one can get into trouble and I understand it and have respect for it. About 14 years ago I was a member of the Civil Air Patrol, wing level command. CAP borrows the uniform from the Air Force. For some, that does not sink in too deeply and it was worn sloppily, out of regs, and created and probably still creates some REAL problems with the Air Force.

In my mind it boils down to this: If we are going to borrow history and live it momentarily, we should remember that we must borrow all that goes with it; the respect for the country, the respect for those fallen to preserve the country, the respect for those living having served, the respect for the military culture being portrayed and respect for the uniform itself. If we are going to reenact history we should reenact all of it or resign ourselves to just being collectors of militaria.

Am I off base here?

 

[cco23i]

As one who is exploring getting into re-enacting, I find this to be a very interesting thread. As a potential newbie, I would like to offer my thoughts and see where they fit in.

As far a the legal aspect of wearing the uniform, the way I read the excerpt of the US Code, I think it implies the current uniform. Obviously, pinks and greens are not current.

Here's a question - If you are a re-enactor, and the National Anthem is playing, do you salute or remove your cap and place your hand over your heart?

As far as re-enacting goes, I think you lose a lot of authenticity when you start leaving things out, such as rank, badges, etc. I think it helps the cause if you are portraying a particular person, family or otherwise and you have really researched that person. For example, if they were wearing a DFC, they should be able to describe what that person did to deserve it and not just wear it for window dressing. They should be able to say, "The individual that I portray is Such and Such and So and So. He/she served with blank, blank, blank, from when to when. I think if you are just making up an individual in order to participate, then medals for valor should be a no-no. (When was the last time somebody ripped those guys portraying Patton?) I think the popularity of re-enacting is indicative of a loss of some of our identity and culture within the masses, that built this country.

If the uniform, rank and badges are being displayed in their proper context AND respect, say for re-enactment purposes, I think you are good to go. It is totally inappropriate to put on the uniform, and say for example, go to a peace protest, say that you are the ghost of World War II and start making statements that could be construed as anti-American or unpatriotic. I'm not saying you can't make political statements, I'm saying if you did not earn that uniform and all of the rank and insignia that goes with it, don't say or do anything that would bring dishonor or discredit upon the uniform that preserved your right to say or do so, otherwise.

This is where I think one can get into trouble and I understand it and have respect for it. About 14 years ago I was a member of the Civil Air Patrol, wing level command. CAP borrows the uniform from the Air Force. For some, that does not sink in too deeply and it was worn sloppily, out of regs, and created and probably still creates some REAL problems with the Air Force.

In my mind it boils down to this: If we are going to borrow history and live it momentarily, we should remember that we must borrow all that goes with it; the respect for the country, the respect for those fallen to preserve the country, the respect for those living having served, the respect for the military culture being portrayed and respect for the uniform itself. If we are going to reenact history we should reenact all of it or resign ourselves to just being collectors of militaria.

Am I off base here?

As for the national anthem in uniform SALUTE! And as for the CAP pissing off many Air force types, yup, kinda as me after spending 26 plus in the air force they should show pride in themselves and their uniform. Granted as a crew chief many time my uniform (work) has looked like crap, but, that's due to 12 plus hours fixing an airplane so it could fly later. As a comment to the "Jed" fellow, I HAVE talked to a recruiter and spent 26 plus years of my life defending this nation and I like seeing reenactors in PROPER period uniforms and representing an honorable past of the military. O.K, I'm done!

Scott

 

[ukali1066]

I had a T shirt with a Parachute Regiment badge on the breast, I wore it to work one day and a customer started talking about it and giving me the respect and interest that comes with being ex army...I of course told him I'd never been in the army..

I never wore it again and gave it to a friend who actually was a Paratrooper...

I think it's wrong to give someone even the idea you served and earned something that you didn't...

 

[cco23i]

If it's a uniform that has been out of use for 60 years and you are doing a living history display at a local event I as a veteran don't see anything wrong with honoring soldiers of the past.

Scott

 

[p51]

If it's a uniform that has been out of use for 60 years and you are doing a living history display at a local event I as a veteran don't see anything wrong with honoring soldiers of the past.

I agree. I have seen Civil War re-enactors get thanked for their service before! :eusa_doh:

 

[MisterCairo]

I had a T shirt with a Parachute Regiment badge on the breast, I wore it to work one day and a customer started talking about it and giving me the respect and interest that comes with being ex army...I of course told him I'd never been in the army..

I never wore it again and gave it to a friend who actually was a Paratrooper...

I think it's wrong to give someone even the idea you served and earned something that you didn't...

Hear, hear!