Questions About the United States Navy Peacoat

[Peacoat]

Is either original? Both?

 

[David Minton]

Something to consider; if the buttons have been repositioned, this could account for a discrepancy in some, though probably not many cases. I have looked at some eBay auctions where the spacing between the columns of buttons seemed off. I have also looked at a few that were so far off the jacket seemed lopsided when buttoned.

If you are still interested in measurements, I have at least one in size 32, 34, 36, 38, 40, 42, and 46 (all no later than 1966) in my collection at the moment.

 

[Peacoat]

If you are still interested in measurements, I have at least one in size 32, 34, 36, 38, 40, 42, and 46 (all no later than 1966) in my collection at the moment.

I would be interested in the p2p on the size 32 and the size 46.

Place the coat face up on a flat surface, fully buttoned. Pull the fabric tight, p2p, let it relax and take the measurement. Try to get accuracy to 1/8" but 1/4" will probably be the best you will be able to manage.

 

[Spoonbelly]

For a number of years now, I have been advocating that buyers obtain accurate p2p measurements. I became aware of the differences in p2p measurements in coats of the same tag size after our friend Cooperson received a peacoat that was substantially larger in the p2p measurement than the tagged size would indicate. This isn't a common occurrence, but it does happen often enough so that it can be a problem, especially in overseas purchases.

The posts by Spoon and Lonauan above emphasize the differences in p2p measurements in the same size peacoat. Thus, my emphasis on p2p measurement rather than relying only on the stated tag size. The tag size is a good place to start, but accurate p2p measurements are necessary if one wants a good fit.

Spoon says his size 46 is "almost" 25" p2p, while Lonauan says his is 24.4". That is a difference of "about" 1/2". Now, 1/2" doesn't sound like much, but remember that is only the p2p, so the error will be doubled to a full inch when the coat is being worn. That could be the difference between wearing a sweater, or not. Or the difference between a trim fit and a not so trim fit, if that is what the purchaser desires.

BTW, Lonauan, welcome to the Lounge. PC.

I remeasured my 3 1969 peacoats. They were 25.0, 24.5, and 25.0.

 

[Peacoat]

I remeasured my 3 1969 peacoats. They were 25.0, 24.5, and 25.0.

Thanks, Spoon. I was hoping for something smaller than the 25" p2p on the size 46 coats. The 24.5 is consistent. PC.

 

[MB5]

Sorry for the slow response.

I compared the two coats and there may be a subtle difference in fabric. The Melton seemed softer at first, but the more they were handled, mine then seemed softer. Mine also does seem to be slightly thicker.
I tried the black object in the shade and the coat does appear to different. I was trying to see the difference under bright light previously as that is what makes the blue in my brothers coat very apparent.
I imagine this is the color of midnight blue occasionally used on dinner jackets for the blacker than black look.

I was expecting a more significant difference in the fabric and for the color to be closer to his, and began to get worried I wound up with Melton.

Thank you for your help and all the extra information on the coats! It is good to know this should be Kersey.

Your coat does appear to be a 1975 contract coat, that was originally made using the fouled anchor black buttons. The black buttons were then replaced with pewter buttons. I am thinking your coat was not issued in boot camp as there is no service number stenciled in the lining. Same with your brother's coat. Your coat should be a dark midnight blue in the Kersey fabric. Comparing it to your brother's coat may not be a good comparison as that coat is melton, not Kersey. There may be some variation in color in the Melton fabric compared to the standard Kersey midnight blue.

But what about the texture of the fabric? Is your coat the same texture as your bother's coat? I am betting it is not, but that your coat is a softer, smoother and thicker fabric. To some people, this distinction can be subtle.

In determining the color, what I would like for you to do is to find a known black object or article of clothing. Take this black object outside with your peacoat. Find a shady spot, or an overcast day will be fine. Then compare the two side by side. I am betting your coat will actually have a deep blue color, rather than black. This too, can be a subtle difference.

After you have determined the texture of the coat, and conducted the color test, please let us know what you have found. Then perhaps I can solve this riddle. PC.

 

[the cappuccino kid]

Think in terms of your actual chest measurement rather than the stated size of the coat. If your chest actually measures 41" then a peacoat that measures 22+ in the p2p (probably a size 42 peacoat) will give you room to wear a heavy sweater underneath. It will give too loose a fit without the sweater, but then you already have one for wear without a sweater.

When measuring the sleeve length, take the measurement along the outside curve of the sleeve from the shoulder seam down to the cuff. Ask the seller to measure this way as well. This is a more difficult measurement than the p2p.

Most of the vintage coats (pre 1980) in size 42 will measure right at 22.25". But as fellow Lounger Cooperson found out, the stated size is not always accurate. The current issue coats in a size 42 might measure 22.50".

Good hunting.

A couple of weeks ago, I finally came upon a pea coat with the correct measurements and was able to win the auction at a reasonable price.
According to the tag, it´s a sz38, however, the pit to pit measures 22".Sleeves 26 1/4". Nowadays there is no problem accommodating an extra thick sweater although it has never been necessary. It it truly a warm and windproof garment.
Thanks for your advice

 

[dleak77]

Hi everyone

I am a newbie here and I don't mean to hijack the thread...but it looks like this is the place to ask general questions about vintage U.S. Navy issued peacoats. I just purchased my first ever peacoat off eBay and am waiting for it to arrive. According the photos on the listing and Mr. Peacoat's sticky on dating these old beauties, this one should be a late 40s/early 50s coat...has the Naval Clothing Depot tag with the anchors in both top corners basically identical to the one shown on the sticky as being a 1949 tag, no cleaning instruction tag seems to have ever been present, and it has the contract number starting with an N prefix.

Unless i am being led astray, the description and pictures indicated that it was in pretty good shape, with only a couple of minor issues one of which is that it is missing a button on the front. I've read through the sticky and also tbrough every post on this thread as well, but I still have 2 questions:

1) If I remember correctly from my reading, these early coats had the Bakelite buttons correct? Later on the Navy changed to a different plastic button. I want to remain as authentic as possible, not to mention wanting it to match the others...so should I be looking for a replacement Bakelite button or can you tell any difference without a lab analysis?

2) What color were the buttons on this era of coat? Everything I have read here and most of the sellers on eBay say black...but I have found a couple sellers who say their buttons are the dark navy blue that, like the coats, looks black until you put it up against a truly black one (which they have done in their picture). I don't know if these are authentic buttons or not. Were the buttons one these early coats actually navy blue, and then when the Navy changed the coat color itself to a true black the buttons changed too...or have the buttons always been black regardless of the coat being navy blue? Again, I am wanting to remain as authentic as possible and make sure the new button matches the old ones.

Thanks for your help, and I appreciate all the info you all have already provided. This forum has been invaluable in my search & research. Thanks again!

 

[Peacoat]

Don't worry about "hijacking" the thread; your questions are right on topic. Plus, even if you did post off topic, the OP, Matt Jones, wouldn't mind. In fact, he wouldn't even know as he hasn't logged on in over 7 years! I think this thread is now in the general domain.

I believe the Bakelite buttons well preceded your coat. They perhaps were replaced sometime during the war years with the buttons we now have. As to the color, I have looked at several of mine, including a WWII coat, and they all appear to be black. These buttons are readily available on the Bay. When your coat comes in, you can compare with a black object and find out the exact color you need.

Welcome to the Lounge. Mr. Peacoat.

 

[dleak77]

Mr. Peacoat,

Thank you for the reply. Apparently I just mis-remembered about the buttons from this particular era being Bakelite. As for the color of the buttons, I assumed after all these posts on the thread that someone would have noticed if they weren't actually black, especially when they bought a black one as a replacement...but it threw me a little when I saw the listings for dark navy blue colored ones. I will definitely double check when the coat arrives, but I'm sure they will turn out to be black as you mentioned. Apparently those navy/midnight blue ones arent authentic, which I suspected was the case but I thought I'd better double check. Again, thanks for the info.

 

[BravoAlphaZulu]

Hello everyone,

Another new arrival here with some questions about dating a recent peacoat acquisition.
The tag most closely matches the 1945 image from Mr Peacoat's dating thread.

The person from whom I purchased the coat told me that, "the owner of this coat joined the Navy after boot camp,went to submarine school in New London Conn. Upon graduation assigned to the USS Croker SS243. In 1965 was transferred to the USS Harder SS568, Charleston South Carolina. He Was Honorably Discharged in 1967.


Some measurements for Mr. Peacoat's database:
Shoulder to shoulder - 17 3/4"
Pit to Pit - 17 3/4"
Sleeves - 24 3/4"

Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for the great resource.

Baz

 

[Peacoat]

Yes, it does appear to be a 1945 tag. Could be that the coat hung around (lost) for a number of years before it was issued. You didn't say what year the sailor joined the Navy, but I am assuming it was 1963, based on the other dates provided. If so, we would expect that he would have been issued a coat with the "US NAVY" tag.

Is that tagged as a size 36 coat? P2P isn't consistent with a 36.

Doesn't appear that this coat has much wear on it. As it's owner was a submariner, I wouldn't expect much wear.

Welcome to The Fedora Lounge. Mr. Peacoat.

 

[BravoAlphaZulu]

Thanks for the quick reply, Mr. Peacoat.
That was the only information that was provided by the seller.
Don't know if you noticed in the photo, it is tagged as a 36. However, it looks as though someone tried to mark through that and next to it wrote "32". I don't know if there ever was a size 32 issued but I imagine someone felt the tag was not a true indication of the actual size. What P2P should a 36 from that period have?
It is a bit snug even for my small frame (5'7" 132lb). Was trying to determine the right size for me where the sleeves wouldn't be too long, if such a size actually exists.
Thanks for the help.

 

[Peacoat]

The p2p is closer to a size 32 than a size 36. We normally would think a size 36 would be about 19.25", but they actually measured at about 19.5 to 19.75" (as I remember), with size 34s coming in at 19". The smaller sizes--34 and 36--have slightly different p2ps than we would expect.

 

[wquiles]

Last two days here in Dallas have been in the upper 20's, low 30's, and man I LOVE having my 1965 Peacoat for this cold weather - just about perfect

The older (1949) size 38 now is used by my wife. She had our Taylor adjust the sleeves for her, and although a little wide on the shoulders (it does look a little big on her), this is her favorite, warm coat for the coldest weather here in Texas. She is always so impressed at how heavy and warm the Peacoat is.

Will

 

[Spoonbelly]

Last two days here in Dallas have been in the upper 20's, low 30's, and man I LOVE having my 1965 Peacoat for this cold weather - just about perfect

The older (1949) size 38 now is used by my wife. She had our Taylor adjust the sleeves for her, and although a little wide on the shoulders (it does look a little big on her), this is her favorite, warm coat for the coldest weather here in Texas. The is always so impressed at how heavy and warm the Peacoat is.

Will

I have a '65 that I gave to my son but he never wears it. He wears a store bought pea coat styled one instead. I have another '65 that I wear. Coincidentally, I bought a '49 for my wife (beautiful year for pea coats) but she never wore it either along with a couple of others that she never wears.

 

[triple-d]

I have a 66.....double stitching 3 inches up ....so it's 66 at the latest, not sure when it was made. It's a size 48, but has grown a little tight through the shoulders...( I hate when my clothes shrink)...lol. I need to pick up a modern version to wear, while I search for a 50 in a vintage coat. That size may never be found in vintage...lol. Thinking a Schott or Sterlingwear to hold me while I search.

 

[Peacoat]

Last two days here in Dallas have been in the upper 20's, low 30's, and man I LOVE having my 1965 Peacoat for this cold weather - just about perfect

The older (1949) size 38 now is used by my wife. She had our Taylor adjust the sleeves for her, and although a little wide on the shoulders (it does look a little big on her), this is her favorite, warm coat for the coldest weather here in Texas. The is always so impressed at how heavy and warm the Peacoat is.

Will

Dallas normally has mild winters, but it does get cold at times. For the temps you mentioned--upper 20s to low 30s--I normally wear a size 40 peacoat. It fits close to the body (I have a 42" chest) which cuts down on the cold air transfer between coat and body. Usually I wear polypropylene next to my body with a regular cotton button down shirt on top of that. The polypropylene provides warmth without bulk. I wear polypropylene most of the winter months here in Middle Tennessee (Nashville area). When I wear a sweater, I wear one of my size 42 peacoats. There is insufficient room in a size 40 peacoat for me to comfortably wear a sweater.

When it is cold and raining, I will wear one of my heavier HH jackets. Peacoats do well in snow and sleet, and for a short time in rain, but I prefer something more water resistant in the rain.

The size 38 peacoat is probably too large for your wife. Mine wears a size 34, and it is a bit large on her. A 32 would be even better. You might find a vintage size 34 for your wife that would fit closer to her body and provide more warmth than the larger size 38.

Dress for warmth, PC

 

[Spoonbelly]

I have a 66.....double stitching 3 inches up ....so it's 66 at the latest, not sure when it was made. It's a size 48, but has grown a little tight through the shoulders...( I hate when my clothes shrink)...lol. I need to pick up a modern version to wear, while I search for a 50 in a vintage coat. That size may never be found in vintage...lol. Thinking a Schott or Sterlingwear to hold me while I search.

Size 48 in a Kersey pea coat is quite rare. I haven't ever seen a size 50 on the internet. They might not exist. You can come across Meltons ( the later material pea coats) in size 50. Every once in a while you will see one on ebay. Actually the first Kersey pea coat I ever bought was a 1965 size 48. This was back in the early to middle '70s when these coats were way more available. I did need to have some alterations done on it as my size is a 46, or a 46L.

 

[triple-d]

Size 48 in a Kersey pea coat is quite rare. I haven't ever seen a size 50 on the internet. They might not exist. You can come across Meltons ( the later material pea coats) in size 50. Every once in a while you will see one on ebay. Actually the first Kersey pea coat I ever bought was a 1965 size 48. This was back in the early to middle '70s when these coats were way more available. I did need to have some alterations done on it as my size is a 46, or a 46L.

Ya.....certainly can't hold my breath waiting for a vintage...lol. Will probably never see one. You think Schott is the way to go for a new Peacoat?