Question for you woodworkers

[Stoney]

So guys, and gals, I've just finished shaping a new hat block which I made out of a Poplar plank. I plan on applying a little steam to this and occasionally using an iron on the felt that will be blocked on it. Given that there will be some heat involved I am quite hesitant to use polyurethane as the finishing coat.

Does anyone have any recommendations for a traditional looking finish that can take a lot of heat without melting or getting soft? I would hate to use my new block on a vintage hat and end up melting the finish coat into the felt.

Seriously I've been thinking of using the engine enamel that you use to touch up or paint auto cylinder heads and blocks. It would look kind of weird to see a hat block in Ford blue or Chevy Competition Orange though. lol However I'm sure the finish would take the heat from an iron and much more to boot.


BTW for anyone who is interested I used the block tutorial over at COW as a reference. The only tools that I used were a sabre saw,
a wood rasp and an electric palm sander. It took about 12 hours total time to make this. Of course if you had a woodshop like Gene's...

 

[Rick Blaine]

That looks great! When do you start taking orders?

 

[J.T.Marcus]

I have two wood blocks, which I used several times, before getting my adjustable aluminum "stretcher" block. After a few hats, I noticed the finish on the wood deteriorating. I asked here what to do about it, but didn't get much help. On a whim, I decided to apply baby oil. It was just what the doctor ordered. Based on my experience, that's the finish I would recommend, with a reapplication after every hat.

 

[HarpPlayerGene]

C'mon, have some dignity...

... use Hemi Orange for crissakes.

Seriously though; Oil - in concept - is probably the right direction in which to head. Actual wood finishing isn't accomplished with baby oil but with linseed oil, "French oil", lemon oil and the like. It can require several coats with rubbing in and buffing off and drying time to adequately protect the wood without worrying about transfer to something like a hat. I certainly wouldn't use a urethane or a lacquer or a varnish of that sort. Wouldn't use wax either for obvious reasons.

You might keep your eye out at Lowe's or Home Depot. In their books area or at most checkout lanes are usually several woodworking magazines. The most often covered subjects for articles are about building a workbench and about using oils and stains. You might learn more about the applications and the properties of each of the available finishing options. I do this stuff as an amatuer hobby - not pretending to know it all. You may even read an option which is different and better than what's been tabled so far.

Below is a shot of my shop. In the foreground, out of camera range, are storage areas and racks for small wood stock, large flat stock held vertically against a wall, and a large workbench with a compound miter saw and vice. I treat my work benches with linseed oil and they are protected and perfectly dry when done properly so I do not have to worry about transfer to new projects with clean dry wood.

G'luck!
Gene

 

[Mark G]

Gene, I envy your shop space (and it's clean), mine is half a garage and I have to keep telling my wife to quit parking in my shop.

I use a very high grade boat epoxy for my blocks. I don't like to use oil because it can leech out of the block when heat is applied, get gummy and cannot stop the water from getting into the joints. If I did use oil, it would be tung oil because it gets into the wood and polymerizes when it's dry. Linseed, whether raw or boiled, will never harden. I build guitars and use the epoxy on my side molds which get subjected to almost 500 degrees F and have not had a problem.

 

[Ande1964]

I'm about to do the same thing, and I plan on using my standard tung oil finish.

Anj

 

[HarpPlayerGene]

Good Points!!

Gene, I envy your shop space (and it's clean), mine is half a garage and I have to keep telling my wife to quit parking in my shop.

I use a very high grade boat epoxy for my blocks. I don't like to use oil because it can leech out of the block when heat is applied, get gummy and cannot stop the water from getting into the joints. If I did use oil, it would be tung oil because it gets into the wood and polymerizes when it's dry. Linseed, whether raw or boiled, will never harden. I build guitars and use the epoxy on my side molds which get subjected to almost 500 degrees F and have not had a problem.

Hey Mark,
Yeah, my shop is a dedicated building/space - but it is offsite from my house. Close by but not totally ideal. Still, glad to have a set-up at all.

I don't deal with the kind of temperatures you milliners and luthiers do so your input here is great. I can't help but wonder what the old-time hat/block makers used before all our fancy chemistry of today. Maybe the tung oil was it.

Here's pix of some of my combined interests shot at my home study:

All the best,

Gene

 

[Mark G]

Nice hats Gene. Oh yeah, and the guitars are cool too. Your Strat looks like an '83 or '4? I love those Epiphones from the days before Gibson clones. fftopic:

 

[Stoney]

Thanks for the advice guys. I may end up using the tung oil approach, but I am very interested in the epoxy that Mark mentioned
since I plan on heating that block up from time to time.

Mark,

What type of marine epoxy do you use? Is it a specific brand and variant?

fftopic:
BTW

I checked out Mark's website and he really makes some beautiful guitars.
It's also neat that he posts photos of some of the guitar building process.
A very cool site..

 

[fletch31]

I have been debating which finish to use myself on a couple of my doctored blocks. I found this in my searches:

"Bill made all his own blocks. He turned them on a lathe, drilled a hole in the bottom, and used spar varnish to finish the wood so that it wouldn’t absorb moisture from the wet felt, and also so that it wouldn’t expand and contract with changes in the weather."

Link for the article is found here:
http://www.antiquesjournal.com/Pages04/Monthly_pages/aug06/wigham.html

Spar varnish is a marine varnish that is waterproof and weather resistant used to protect wood trims and such on boats exposed to the elements. This guy steams the felt on the blocks as well so I think this may be a good solution.

 

[Art Fawcett]

I actually use a polyurethane on my blocks and they seem to be holding up well under the strain Stoney. Spar varnish sounds like the right way to go, so long as it seals the wood from moisture, you should be fine.

 

[Ande1964]

"Bill made all his own blocks. He turned them on a lathe, drilled a hole in the bottom, and used spar varnish to finish the wood so that it wouldn’t absorb moisture from the wet felt, and also so that it wouldn’t expand and contract with changes in the weather."

Okay... I've seen people talk about turning their blocks on a lathe before, too. How do you do that? No block is perfectly round, is it? So, you have to cut the turned, round block in half and glue in another piece to make it an oval, right? Am I missing something obvious here?

Anj

 

[Mark G]

Thanks for the compliments Stoney. I get the epoxy from www.tapplastics.com and use the 314 resin with 102 (fast) hardener. You can get similar products from Rockler but it's not cheap. If Art uses poly and doesn't have a problem with it, I'd just use that. He's used his blocks a lot more than I have.

Anj, I do exactly that turn it, cut the block and fill in the space to give me the right shape and circumference.

 

[fletch31]

Okay... I've seen people talk about turning their blocks on a lathe before, too. How do you do that? No block is perfectly round, is it? So, you have to cut the turned, round block in half and glue in another piece to make it an oval, right? Am I missing something obvious here?

Anj

There is a oval chuck attachment for a lathe that lets you turn oval shapes. They are usually called elliptical chucks and have been traditionally hard to come by though there are now companies making them commerically as advertised in my woodturning magazine. It keeps the spinning wood piece the same distance from the cutting tool as it spins. I was thinking of applying this concept to a table mounted spinner for even hat finishing.

 

[Stoney]

Again thanks for the input guys. I just picked up some spar varnish and I'll try the finished block out with an old t-shirt as the gineapig. As long as no varnish comes off on the t-shirt when I really abuse it, and I intend to, I think it will be OK. If it does then I'll try out some of Mark's epoxy. It may be a week or more before I try this out, but I'll post back with the results.


That sounds like a good idea fletch. Have you checked out the Making a new hat thread with JW Hats.
He has a one of a kind finishing table that spins the hat at 500 RPM. Woah!

 

[fletch31]

Yep, it was my post. I got to see it first hand
I went down to see Jim at JW Hats and took more than 100 pics. That was a pretty neat piece of gear he had in that it was specifically made for hats back in the 1800's. It was huge under his table and you can just get a glimpse of it in that pic. Big old cast iron thing. It did not adjust for the oval shape of the block though. Jim said you just let your hand float on it when you are doing the sides.

 

[Stoney]

Ah ha!

So we have a dual, or multiple, identity going on here. I wondered whatever happened to the guy that posted that. BTW Great job on the post.

 

[fletch31]

No actually just me. I was the second guy to go through his place and made the more recent posts with pics. Good job on your hat making attempts though Stoney. I've enjoyed reading your posts.

 

[Vardeman Sneed]

...BTW for anyone who is interested I used the block tutorial over at COW as a reference. The only tools that I used were a sabre saw,
a wood rasp and an electric palm sander. It took about 12 hours total time to make this...

Stoney,

It looks like you are a week ahead of me.

I used a sabre saw and a wood rasp. Although my electric sander is hand held, it is a little larger than palm size. I am currently working with 100 grit sandpaper and still messing around with the wood putty.

I am thinking about finishing mine with pecan polyurethane stain.

 

[bolthead]

Stoney,

It looks like you are a week ahead of me.

I used a sabre saw and a wood rasp. Although my electric sander is hand held, it is a little larger than palm size. I am currently working with 100 grit sandpaper and still messing around with the wood putty.

I am thinking about finishing mine with pecan polyurethane stain.

I like the way you staggered the grain...it looks sweet. :eusa_clap