PSA: Bad Actors in Classifieds

[blobsterroll]

Tfl classifieds

Two weeks later on ebay

Another two weeks later on Vinted

HAHAH I sold that to him! But not for that much, backchannel negotiations instead since I posted it to sell but I can only mark it as "sold". I bought it here but it didnt really fit and I compared it to another vintage piece (J24) I copped from the same lounger and decided I'd rather invest time and energy in restoring that Buco than invest further in that other one. Plus my car needs new parts! More power to him though if he ever sells it for that price, he is a true salesman.

So are we not allowed to make a profit here? Or at least break even? Imagine you bought a jacket and it did not meet your expectations are you supposed to just sell for a loss every time? Or you found a jacket you like and you need some closet space.

I am TFL biased though so I crosspost here and I try and help them out with the cost if I can. If a redditor wants to come through and buy something and flip it, who is buying it? Most people (that are not enthusiasts) would not buy say; a PJ27 for what its worth. Other than enthusiasts! And if the price is over the top, I doubt that enthusiast will pay it.

 

[El Marro]

So are we not allowed to make a profit here? Or at least break even? Imagine you bought a jacket and it did not meet your expectations are you supposed to just sell for a loss every time? Or you found a jacket you like and you need some closet space.

I don’t think anybody is suggesting that you have to sell a jacket for a loss. Just that there is a spirit of camaraderie and so people will often turn around and sell a jacket they have bought here for exactly what they paid for it in order to give someone else a chance to enjoy that jacket.
Around this time last year there was a real turd burglar who bought an LW J100 for $600 on eBay and then listed it here for $1500. When he was called out for doing so, he tried to lie about it, and claimed that this was a different jacket entirely or that he was a different person from the eBay purchaser. In the end, his web of lies and deceit became too much and he left in disgrace.
That is a rather extreme example, and even then some longtime members felt that it was his prerogative to ask whatever price he wanted.

 

[blobsterroll]

I don’t think anybody is suggesting that you have to sell a jacket for a loss. Just that there is a spirit of camaraderie and so people will often turn around and sell a jacket they have bought here for exactly what they paid for it in order to give someone else a chance to enjoy that jacket.
Around this time last year there was a real turd burglar who bought an LW J100 for $600 on eBay and then listed it here for $1500. When he was called out for doing so, he tried to lie about it, and claimed that this was a different jacket entirely or that he was a different person from the eBay purchaser. In the end, his web of lies and deceit became too much and he left in disgrace.
That is a rather extreme example, and even then some longtime members felt that it was his prerogative to ask whatever price he wanted.

Was he able to sell the jacket? Who bought it? Because the buyer and seller in that case seems like two consenting adults who put a price tag on something and they all agreed. Cant be one of us though, right? We know the worth of our things.

 

[El Marro]

Nobody bought the jacket on the lounge because another member had been following the eBay listing and brought it to everyone’s attention. And you’re absolutely right, as long as two consenting adults agree on a price, then a deal is a deal. I myself have paid more for jackets, guitars, guns, and automobiles, then most normal people would care to. with only a few exceptions, I have been satisfied with these purchases, and considered the money well spent.

 

[AHP91]

Taking advantage?

Interesting. I obviously don’t monitor every single transaction here but I can’t remember a long standing member ever getting screwed over by a new member. There are no suckers on here. I have seen the opposite though.

I think people need to distinguish between flipping for a profit and charging over market value. We’ve had plenty of both on this forum. If someone got $1000 jacket at a flea market for $50 they have every right to make a profit. It’s when they charge $2000 for $1000 jacket is when it’s not right. The people who charge over market value well, guess what, their shit doesn’t sell.

My philosophy on this is, if as a seller you don’t do your due diligence, you deserve to get taken. I’ve “taken advantage” of that and have gotten steals many times before as have many members here have throughout the years. Same goes with being an educated buyer.

New members coming on here and asking questions about what they have and how much it’s worth is them doing their due diligence. I have no problem and will continue to have no problem telling people what they have and how much it’s worth. In fact, not only will I tell them how much it’s worth, I will help them achieve that number. Then, if I’m interested, I will let them know, Hey… I can either help you achieve that number OR I can save you all that work time and effort And I’ll usually offer anywhere between 20 to 30% of market value. Win-win. People have reached out to me privately before and I’ve been able to get jackets doing exactly this.

Sounds like you work in real estate. May as well change the site to an appraisal service. We can have everyone come in and ask how much their 1980s Schott Perfecto is worth. And then they can list for above market value, because that is just what people do.

We can have a thread dedicated to half assed photos ignoring any faults and saying - hi I have this, are you idiots going to pay me a lot for it? We can see how popular that thread can be.

@tmitchell59 offered the most sensible approach to this a while back - he would charge for information/valuation?. Seems like a more sensible approach if you all you want is a number.

 

[Marc mndt]

If I sold a jacket to Tony or any other longstanding member just to see it listed at a huge upcharge on eBay or Etsy one week later, I would be pissed to say the least.


Different non-related situation but not that long ago I sold my Appalachian to a guy on Vinted after he had been begging me to give him a better deal for days. "He had always wanted a real American made jacket but he was on a budget". Later the story changed, he was buying it as a gift. Anyway once we finally agreed on a price (€275) he wanted to "split the shipping costs" which were a staggering €4 total. After I shipped the jacket he wanted to know everything about the history, its provenance, the leather, hardware etc. Info I was happy to provide because I thought he was genuinely interested.

A week later it showed up on Etsy using my photos and description, I wasn't asked for permission. I was pissed.

To avoid annoying situations like described above I prefer to sell my jackets to long standing members trough TFL classifieds. It would be a shame if I'd have to worry about flipping practices here as well. This is a place to have fun, a place where I connect to other jacket enthusiasts. Not a place that allows flippers that don't have any real interest in jackets to make a profit.

 

[blobsterroll]

If I sold a jacket to Tony or any other longstanding member just to see it listed at a huge upcharge on eBay or Etsy one week later, I would be pissed to say the least.


Different non-related situation but not that long ago I sold my Appalachian to a guy on Vinted after he had been begging me to give him a better deal for days. "He had always wanted a real American made jacket but he was on a budget". Later the story changed, he was buying it as a gift. Anyway once we finally agreed on a price (€275) he wanted to "split the shipping costs" which were a staggering €4 total. After I shipped the jacket he wanted to know everything about the history, its provenance, the leather, hardware etc. Info I was happy to provide because I thought he was genuinely interested.

A week later it showed up on Etsy using my photos and description, I wasn't asked for permission. I was pissed.

To avoid annoying situations like described above I prefer to sell my jackets to long standing members trough TFL classifieds. It would be a shame if I'd have to worry about flipping practices here as well. This is a place to have fun, a place where I connect to other jacket enthusiasts. Not a place that allows flippers that don't have any real interest in jackets to make a profit.

View attachment 587855

But thats his prerogative though, he owns it so he can sell it whenever at whatever price, shitty and I would probably stop selling to him at a discount. This kind of thing is very common in the car and watch community (especially Rolex), some people would buy a car or watch just to wait for the value to go up and flip it later.

In my case I found some vintage German leather jackets at a Sunday kilo sale, I would sell it to some select TFL members for cheaper than I would sell to others (TFL or not, I must admit that I dont like every member here - however, I do like a lot of them).

I think a solution is to make a database of users like that wanting to just flip it at outrageous prices waaay above market value, just to avoid the TFL members from being gouged.

 

[Observe]

People are free to buy and sell as they please, but if you pull a stunt like some of the stories in this thread, don't expect people to be happy about it. I put in the time and effort to build my reputation here as a trustworthy, decent person and I expect anyone interested in reaping the benefits of this community to do the same.

 

[hungapotamus]

But thats his prerogative though, he owns it so he can sell it whenever at whatever price, shitty and I would probably stop selling to him at a discount. This kind of thing is very common in the car and watch community (especially Rolex), some people would buy a car or watch just to wait for the value to go up and flip it later.

In my case I found some vintage German leather jackets at a Sunday kilo sale, I would sell it to some select TFL members for cheaper than I would sell to others (TFL or not, I must admit that I dont like every member here - however, I do like a lot of them).

I think a solution is to make a database of users like that wanting to just flip it at outrageous prices waaay above market value, just to avoid the TFL members from being gouged.

1. The buyer was deceptive and used the seller's good faith to withdraw information that he would later use for financial gain at 5-6X the original price that again was given in good faith and a false premise (bullshit family story). This does not align with the spirit of this community and is grounds for a ban in my opinion.

2. Would the database of users include you? In any case, Fedora Lounge shouldn't have to keep some sort of registry to track users who deal in bad faith - again, this should be a community of like minded enthusiasts. On principle, FL should be able to operate without some kind of legal system to root out bad actors.

 

[tuanhng614]

I have been a regular member of TFL for 10 years or more, some times more active, others perhaps on the background, but it has been a consistent part of my life and one that has kept me company, taught me a lot in unexpected areas of life, and also made me spent amounts of money in clothes I would have never imagined before I started contributing here.
No regrets though, it has made me find my personal style and feel more confident in doing so.

In saying this, I think the last three or four years are the best ones in TFL’s recent history in my opinion, in terms of the camaraderie and general good vibes of the current members.

People come and go, bullies get turfed out and somehow the lounge keeps getting better, more respectful, knowledgeable and accepting of everyone’s different tastes and opinions.
Older members are quick to help new ones and do it with the best intentions.
There’s less bitchiness than a few years ago too and more mature behaviours in general.

I have faith and hope that this trend will continue and if there’s a couple of bad apples now, eventually they’ll move on to the next shiny thing and the true enthusiasts will remain here spreading good vibes and helping each other.

Let’s keep those good deals for the members coming, good deeds breed even better ones.

Best response I read so far, and love the attitude!

I do feel and understand the gripe, but indeed, your last statement just concluded it all!

 

[blobsterroll]

1. The buyer was deceptive and used the seller's good faith to withdraw information that he would later use for financial gain at 5-6X the original price that again was given in good faith and a false premise (bullshit family story). This does not align with the spirit of this community and is grounds for a ban in my opinion.

2. Would the database of users include you? In any case, Fedora Lounge shouldn't have to keep some sort of registry to track users who deal in bad faith - again, this should be a community of like minded enthusiasts. On principle, FL should be able to operate without some kind of legal system to root out bad actors.

1. Sure but it is also the prerogative of the seller if he wants to sell it for that price (which means that its the value of the jacket for him) or higher. Its a transaction of two consenting adults. The subterfuge is annoying but we dont have to do any transactions with him moving forward. The only thing we can do now is to protect potential buyers, which is better than penalizing sellers.

2. It should include you, you just got here and I dont know you or what you are up to. I probably would not buy or sell from you. And if the TFL wants to include me, then sure. I would argue we should all be there then how many among you made a profit? Broke even? Got a good deal? I am not going to pretend that everything being done here is because of charity and friendship, you want to break even or make a profit then go for it. I care about (select) members of the community and hope they make money and would try and give them a good deal. We can identify who wants to flip jackets, we simply dont buy or sell from them. Or we do if we choose to, point is we have a choice.

 

[Aloysius]

I should note that though I mentioned the classifieds in the title (and they're part of the issue), my bigger issue is that we should be mindful to not let Reddit/typical social media culture take over. I have seen it happen on forums and other more focused groups. There's more to it than flipping.

In fact, some of the worst of it has nothing to do with selling/buying at all.

 

[hungapotamus]

1. Sure but it is also the prerogative of the seller if he wants to sell it for that price (which means that its the value of the jacket for him) or higher. Its a transaction of two consenting adults. The subterfuge is annoying but we dont have to do any transactions with him moving forward. The only thing we can do now is to protect potential buyers, which is better than penalizing sellers.

2. It should include you, you just got here and I dont know you or what you are up to. I probably would not buy or sell from you. And if the TFL wants to include me, then sure. I would argue we should all be there then how many among you made a profit? Broke even? Got a good deal? I am not going to pretend that everything being done here is because of charity and friendship, you want to break even or make a profit then go for it. I care about (select) members of the community and hope they make money and would try and give them a good deal. We can identify who wants to flip jackets, we simply dont buy or sell from them. Or we do if we choose to, point is we have a choice.

By your own admission you flipped a jacket you acquired from a member here for profit. That means you belong on the bad actor list.

I have purchased 2 jackets in my time here and have sold neither nor do I intend to sell them. This means I don't belong on the list.

 

[blobsterroll]

By your own admission you flipped a jacket you acquired from a member here for profit. That means you belong on the bad actor list.

I have purchased 2 jackets in my time here and have sold neither nor do I intend to sell them. This means I don't belong on the list.

Who hasn't? I have also sold at a loss, I have broke even, I cover the shipping most of the time and mitigate their risk for them.

And no, lacking the skill and capability to sell does not give you the moral high ground. In other words; You're not peaceful, you're just harmless. Lol.

 

[Harris HTM]

VLJ Forum has a much better policy, no interaction with the Classifieds section allowed unless you have a minimum (50 if I remember well) posts. TFL has turned into a marketplace, many members have posted nothing else but sale ads (usually with link to their ebay post).

Who hasn't?

Me. And I guess I am not the only one who all the items he has sold were at a (significant) loss.

 

[blobsterroll]

Me. And I guess I am not the only one who all the items he has sold were at a (significant) loss.

But did you want to? All I am saying is people should have the option to sell for a profit if they like. Personally, within fair market value. I use Rin Tanaka's pricing + inflation - shipping. I always lose 50-60% of value on new items.

The jacket I sold above, I actually sold at a loss because I always give people free super fast shipping (-$50 loss) If that guy can flip it for more profit, more power to him and GLWS.

Edit: now I thought about it, it's a -$150 loss. I remember the exchange rate and PayPal fees killing me.

 

[Marc mndt]

The jacket I sold above, I actually sold at a loss because I always give people free super fast shipping (-$50 loss) If that guy can flip it for more profit, more power to him and GLWS.

Edit: now I thought about it, it's a -$150 loss. I remember the exchange rate and PayPal fees killing me.

Ok so instead of relisting it here for what you paid for it + maybe some extra $ to cover for shipping costs and conversation fees, you listed it on eBay for $1200 (double the money) only to sell it at a -$150 loss. Cool story bro.

 

[blobsterroll]

Ok so instead of relisting it here for what you paid for it + maybe some extra $ to cover for shipping costs and conversation fees, you listed it on eBay for $1200 (double the money) only to sell it at a -$150 loss. Cool story bro.

Yeah because I anticipated that people will lowball me anyways and if you want a certain price, you have to take that into account.

so yeah it is a cool story indeed, "bro"

 

[cbez]

EBay will nuke your account if you do that too often.

 

[blobsterroll]

EBay will nuke your account if you do that too often.

I mean yeah, but this is a target of opportunity and I'm trying to make a sale. I could have hit up the dude that sold it to me, but he is selling so he can buy something else.

Everyone on TFL can negotiate with me offline. Does not mean I will sell though.