PSA: Bad Actors in Classifieds

[tmitchell59]

TFL is not a private club. TFl promotes the classifieds to draw people here. I've sold jackets to people who stayed around for the fun. They were not even aware of TFL. This forum is a business.

I've sold jackets that have re surfaced for sale, so what? Did they know something I didn't? No, they only thought they did. They paid what I ask, so I'm done.


The Appalachian above is not worth $1625. How they arrived at that number I have no idea. Has this jacket sold? I would guess no.

There seem to be an assumption that people here are fools with money. In all the the hundreds of jacket I have sold I haven't met one.

 

[JMax]

It’s not the stupid asking prices or post count, it’s the BS to hide the fact that they are here to gather info to go try and screw someone over with. And I actually prefer the one and dones over the guys acting like they are interested in jackets. The one/done guys get in, quick action and get out fast. Like courtesans of the night. I can respect that some.

 

[Aloysius]

I thought the title would make it seem more netural but I think it backfired.

The classifieds are not the main part of what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the very different discussion cultures of a forum vs a subreddit.

This is an ongoing discussion in many of the enthusiast forums that I am part of. We all sense there's a strikingly different culture in places like Reddit and other social media.

 

[JMax]

I thought the title would make it seem more netural but I think it backfired.

The classifieds are not the main part of what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the very different discussion cultures of a forum vs a subreddit.

This is an ongoing discussion in many of the enthusiast forums that I am part of. We all sense there's a strikingly different culture in places like Reddit and other social media.

That’s the BS I’m at least partly talking about.

It’s also why I dislike the new and constant “How do I look” threads and the long philosophical posts about why someone decided to wear a black leather jacket with blue jeans today. It all feels so damn lonely haha.

 

[Aloysius]

It’s also why I dislike the new and constant “How do I look” threads and the long philosophical posts about why someone decided to wear a black leather jacket with blue jeans today. It all feels so damn lonely haha.

A good way to illustrate is just looking at the latest topics in the two places.

Reddit "Leather Jacket" community:

"Is my jacket too short?" (Link to super long jacket pic.)
A few "legit check"/"how much is this worth" posts
Bunch of Alibaba type jacket makers doing promo
Movie pic + where can I find a copy jacket?

TFL Outerwear:

(A few megathreads, like WJAYWT and Deals)

Riding gear discussion
A couple of fit checks, to be fair.
Longstanding deep dive threads into makers and jacket types
Discussion of a specific jacket model with details

 

[Nykwil]

This thread sounds like a lot of gatekeeping.

I don’t care what people do with jackets they wanna sell.

I’m concerned this kind of talk will turn people away. And if people want to learn where do they go? The poorly shared information on Reddit or here?

Maybe I’m naive to think people genuinely want to learn when actual lived knowledge is so hard to find these days on the internet.
Wild to me people don’t want to share this.

OP read one or two threads that threatened his worldview and felt the need to “preserve” its “innocence” here.

From what I can tell nothing has changed here. Nothing has actually happened. People freely exchange
their thoughts and ideas here still.

Evolve. Adapt. E-Ching.

 

[navetsea]

If I sold a jacket to Tony or any other longstanding member just to see it listed at a huge upcharge on eBay or Etsy one week later, I would be pissed to say the least.


Different non-related situation but not that long ago I sold my Appalachian to a guy on Vinted after he had been begging me to give him a better deal for days. "He had always wanted a real American made jacket but he was on a budget". Later the story changed, he was buying it as a gift. Anyway once we finally agreed on a price (€275) he wanted to "split the shipping costs" which were a staggering €4 total. After I shipped the jacket he wanted to know everything about the history, its provenance, the leather, hardware etc. Info I was happy to provide because I thought he was genuinely interested.

A week later it showed up on Etsy using my photos and description, I wasn't asked for permission. I was pissed.

To avoid annoying situations like described above I prefer to sell my jackets to long standing members trough TFL classifieds. It would be a shame if I'd have to worry about flipping practices here as well. This is a place to have fun, a place where I connect to other jacket enthusiasts. Not a place that allows flippers that don't have any real interest in jackets to make a profit.

View attachment 587855

one experience like that will change the innocence genuineness of the vibe, I hate the world has turned into such way that smart equals to immoral profit seeking and using others for personal gain. influencers asking free stuff, youtuber fashion gurus giving promotion to crap watches and crap leather products to thousands of their followers that genuinely looking for direction and probably on tight budget.

 

[ton312]

IMO the feel here has absolutely changed over the past year, maybe two. Feels more like style forum. Yes the fit check threads are an absolute bane. Asking about fit opinions is so utterly pointless. What difference does it make?A thousand people can tell you it’s perfect and if you don’t feel it, it isn’t. They absolutely cheapen the lounge. Post it it the jacket o’ the day thread. Doesn’t need its own.

I disagree that this place is a business. There is a forum to do biz in but the forum itself is free to join, collects no membership fees, and has less vetting than most Facebook groups. How people conduct themselves in that sub forum, generally speaks volumes about the member and does so in relatively short order. Whatever money that the site garners from advertising clearly goes to operating expenses and paying for the Windows ‘95 server this place runs off.

My interests have certainly changed and in reality they don’t align with this space all that well. This has happened to a number of members here and I think that’s ultimately why people fall off. Unfortunately the lounge doesn’t really evolve all that much in this way. How many times can you go over essentially the same small set of vintage jackets, the same repros…. boring, at least for me. I’ll freely admit this probably says more about me than the space. But it feels really stale.

The only thing keeping me here is the few relationships I value, the good conversation I have between some members, and the entertaining often ridiculous threads (that have become too few and far between). I couldn’t be less interested in x,y,z vintage Halfbelt, M/C jacket, repro, etc. I don’t feel there’s anything left to impress or wow me in that regard. This probably happens to everybody that spends enough time in the hobby.

 

[Will Zach]

Whatever money that the site garners from advertising clearly goes to operating expenses and paying for the Windows ‘95 server this place runs off.

LOL

 

[ton312]

LOL

Am I wrong?!?

 

[Jonanah]

This is a very interesting discussion, especially as someone who is new to the forum!

I think everyone has made valid points. It looks like there are two sides of the spectrum here:

1) Those who want to preserve a tightly knit community of familiar faces who all know and respect the etiquette. In its purest form this allows for a kind of generalized reciprocity, a form of exchange that is particularly useful for a group of people who enjoy trying a wide variety of big-ticket items, e.g. leather jackets.

2) Those who see this forum as a platform for the free market to play out—both the marketplace of goods, and the marketplace of ideas—open to anyone for any purpose.

TFL exists in the tension between these two sides, and I think it is a productive tension. A fully closed space would allow everyone to have complete trust in each other, but without any new contributors with different ideas and experiences coming in, it would quickly become stale and peter out.

TFL exists on the internet—not the safest place for intellectual property, nor exactly a haven from scammers or others with ill intent. But TFL retains a special feel to it, through a strong culture and devoted participants and moderators who are committed to maintaining a high (enough) standard of conduct. So new people (like me) will constantly be joining, and that's a good thing, at least for anyone who wants this place to keep going. But yeah, not everyone is going to be amazing...unfortunately not everyone on the internet is amazing :/

And I will say, for what it's worth, it was the classifieds that first got me interested in this community. I bought a jacket from @JCSD on fleabay before finding him on here. Now I've got two pieces from him, and I've met @jeo and @ab_crafted (don't know his username on here) in person. It's only natural that the marketplace is going to be the draw for most people, and those of us who find that they like the community will stay.

One of these days, I might start working out hard enough that I can't fit into my jackets, and I have to sell them. That will be a sad day, but it would be made less sad by breaking even, or better yet coming out ahead (and having big muscles). Will I? Probably not. But I might as well try!

Anyway, thanks for listening to this ramble from a newbie, and thanks for having me on your (public) forum

 

[jeo]

This is a very interesting discussion, especially as someone who is new to the forum!

I think everyone has made valid points. It looks like there are two sides of the spectrum here:

1) Those who want to preserve a tightly knit community of familiar faces who all know and respect the etiquette. In its purest form this allows for a kind of generalized reciprocity, a form of exchange that is particularly useful for a group of people who enjoy trying a wide variety of big-ticket items, e.g. leather jackets.

2) Those who see this forum as a platform for the free market to play out—both the marketplace of goods, and the marketplace of ideas—open to anyone for any purpose.

TFL exists in the tension between these two sides, and I think it is a productive tension. A fully closed space would allow everyone to have complete trust in each other, but without any new contributors with different ideas and experiences coming in, it would quickly become stale and peter out.

TFL exists on the internet—not the safest place for intellectual property, nor exactly a haven from scammers or others with ill intent. But TFL retains a special feel to it, through a strong culture and devoted participants and moderators who are committed to maintaining a high (enough) standard of conduct. So new people (like me) will constantly be joining, and that's a good thing, at least for anyone who wants this place to keep going. But yeah, not everyone is going to be amazing...unfortunately not everyone on the internet is amazing :/

And I will say, for what it's worth, it was the classifieds that first got me interested in this community. I bought a jacket from @JCSD on fleabay before finding him on here. Now I've got two pieces from him, and I've met @jeo and @ab_crafted (don't know his username on here) in person. It's only natural that the marketplace is going to be the draw for most people, and those of us who find that they like the community will stay.

One of these days, I might start working out hard enough that I can't fit into my jackets, and I have to sell them. That will be a sad day, but it would be made less sad by breaking even, or better yet coming out ahead (and having big muscles). Will I? Probably not. But I might as well try!

Anyway, thanks for listening to this ramble from a newbie, and thanks for having me on your (public) forum

Jonah, good to see you on here man! Dude that High Notch/Izumiya looked killer on you! I hope the day never comes you must sell!

 

[Nykwil]

Not sharing the collective knowledge here would be such a waste in hindsight later.
Knowledge is very easily lost in the digital age. Especially when people try to monetize ideas.

Once one of the veterans on here passes, what happens to that knowledge if a TFL server is deleted and never shared to someone else who can repeat it?

I will say places like the styleforum tend to be fickle to me. Peoples taste and whims on there change with the season. Those that want to learn and aren't trying to wear a new jacket with every fashion season will stay here and participate. Those that don't find value in the discussions here will get bored and move on.

 

[Jonanah]

Jonah, good to see you on here man! Dude that High Notch/Izumiya looked killer on you! I hope the day never comes you must sell!

Ay thanks man! Hope we get to hang again soon. And yes was just saying that for the sake of argument—they’ll have to pry that jacket from my cold dead hands haha

 

[jeo]

Ay thanks man! Hope we get to hang again soon. And yes was just saying that for the sake of argument—they’ll have to pry that jacket from my cold dead hands haha

Haha well you never know where the journey will take you, just enjoy the ride my friend! Yes, hope to hang again soon!

 

[blobsterroll]

Not sharing the collective knowledge here would be such a waste in hindsight later.
Knowledge is very easily lost in the digital age. Especially when people try to monetize ideas.

Once one of the veterans on here passes, what happens to that knowledge if a TFL server is deleted and never shared to someone else who can repeat it?

I will say places like the styleforum tend to be fickle to me. Peoples taste and whims on there change with the season. Those that want to learn and aren't trying to wear a new jacket with every fashion season will stay here and participate. Those that don't find value in the discussions here will get bored and move on.

You said it best man, its just gatekeeping. When I was newer I tried to buy from a well known member here but I mistyped on what the jacket brand is and he said he does not have *THAT* jacket (knowing damn well which jacket I meant) and not even 3 seconds later turned around and marked it as sold to another well known member. It is part of the game, and denying that such things dont exist here and clutching your proverbial pearls is just hypocritical. Like I found out ITT that some people dont like it when a certain demographic of people are doing what they do, and when it does not benefit them.

I thought an online forum is a place of free flowing discussion/information sharing on niche topics, in our case menswear. If we cant ask about a vintage piece and share information because of the potential for price gouging, and we cant post fits nor ask how xyz should fit (since some folks here are deep into leather jacket lore and would know how something is supposed to fit, traditionally), and we also cant sell, then what is this forum for?

I'd hate this place to turn into a big circle jerk/yOu CaNt sIt wItH uS/mUh sEcReT cLuB-ism with "cool kids" that demands worship because they have "time in the forum" like its a real status/achievement. Because that sounds a lot like reddit, and quite frankly this is all just a hobby and its not that deep lol. I guess every forum ends up there anyways.

 

[JMax]

You said it best man, its just gatekeeping. When I was newer I tried to buy from a well known member here but I mistyped on what the jacket brand is and he said he does not have *THAT* jacket (knowing damn well which jacket I meant) and not even 3 seconds later turned around and marked it as sold to another well known member. It is part of the game, and denying that such things dont exist here and clutching your proverbial pearls is just hypocritical. Like I found out ITT that some people dont like it when a certain demographic of people are doing what they do, and when it does not benefit them.

I thought an online forum is a place of free flowing discussion/information sharing on niche topics, in our case menswear. If we cant ask about a vintage piece and share information because of the potential for price gouging, and we cant post fits nor ask how xyz should fit (since some folks here are deep into leather jacket lore and would know how something is supposed to fit, traditionally), and we also cant sell, then what is this forum for?

I'd hate this place to turn into a big circle jerk/yOu CaNt sIt wItH uS/mUh sEcReT cLuB-ism with "cool kids" that demands worship because they have "time in the forum" like its a real status/achievement. Because that sounds a lot like reddit, and quite frankly this is all just a hobby and its not that deep lol. I guess every forum ends up there anyways.

No one said not to sell here. No one said not to ask questions. No one said not to help folks, the contrary in fact. No one said TFL is perfect. No one thinks this is deep stuff. No one said not to post fit pics. And on and on. The hell are you talking about?

 

[blobsterroll]

No one said not to sell here. No one said not to ask questions. No one said not to help folks, the contrary in fact. No one said TFL is perfect. No one thinks this is deep stuff. No one said not to post fit pics. And on and on. The hell are you talking about?

Look at post 62, 63, 64, 65 especially ITT and read the entire thread, an example;

That’s the BS I’m at least partly talking about.

It’s also why I dislike the new and constant “How do I look” threads and the long philosophical posts about why someone decided to wear a black leather jacket with blue jeans today. It all feels so damn lonely haha.

So what are you implying then? We can ask questions only if it aligns with the almighty Jmax's vibe?

I ask again, what is this forum for?

 

[JMax]

Look at post 62, 63, 64, 65 especially ITT and read the entire thread, an example;



So what are you implying then? We can ask questions only if it aligns with the almighty Jmax's vibe?

I ask again, what is this forum for?

Haha. No genius. Ask away. I just don’t like the threads. Like another member said, I prefer those type posts in the what jacket are you wearing thread. You can’t be this dense.

You are way off base with your recent posts. People message me, and no doubt others, frequently for help with a jacket or even just finding a jacket. I like helping the same way I was helped and still am helped by folks here.

 

[Aloysius]

I mean those are mostly my posts, but I think they're being misinterpreted.

I have no issue with people joining and becoming part of the community. It's a good thing, and I've encouraged many people to come over myself.

There is a broader thing though where there's a difference between forum culture and Reddit culture.

Like maybe it didn't seem this way to others but one of my issues with the Reddit approach to these things is that it's more prone to groupthink than a forum. Any given subreddit develops a certain main opinion, then a dissent. I've seen this in everything from video games to music discussion to of course jacket discussion.

Forums tend to have much more debate within themselves. Like there's a joke people make about watch enthusiasts starting out as Rolex shills, then thinking they're too mainstream, then coming back around to liking Rolex because of its reputation for consistency (something that the new faulty movement has chipped away at, but you get my point.)

In the more enthusiast communities, people tend to like the whole range. On Reddit's leather jacket discussion, for example, where half the posts are about mall jackets (which I don't have a problem with), most of the comments are like "There are no good leather jackets cheaper than Thedi." "Everything under $1000 is crap, just watch my YouTube video where I explain it".

You'd never get a hard numbers gatekeeping piece of "advice" here like that. People will ask your budget and give you a range of options within it so you can find something that works.

I've spent many hours of my life writing out long essay-length things about fit advice, sizing, etc, in DMs with people I've never heard from again. And that's fine! I hope they found something that worked for them.

When I've been at the Schott sales, I've similarly spent hours helping strangers find jackets that fit them. For example, there was a really small guy, a size 34 or 32 and he had trouble finding anything in his size. I showed him how to identify the Schott Japan label and told him about their reverse vanity sizing; he quickly found a size 38 labeled jacket, which was a snug fit on him.