Please recommend YOUR custom hat maker

[Matt Deckard]

This is a very touchy subject with many so take this as my opinion.

You can have an all beaver hat that is tough as nails though if it is not the highest end beaver it can't be rolled without getting creases that will damage the integrity of the felt. Beaver is the best felt for wear in the rain though in my opinion most beaver needs to be stiffened and not to pliable in order to be used properly (hence the importance of beaver in cowboy hats). The Optimo is a near half and half blend of Nutria and Beaver. The beaver supplies water repelancy and the nutria supplies the ability to take rolling and crushing. I with some dress hatters believe that in some cases blends are better.

 

[Mycroft]

So it is the best of both worlds, that is great for everyone.

 

[Matt Deckard]

So it is the best of both worlds, that is great for everyone.

It still depends on who you talk to. If you want a soft pliable dress hat I think a blend will hold up better if you are going to roll the hat. All beaver in my opinion holds up better against the elements as long as it is not rolled or bent. That is the opinion of the hatters I trust and mostly what I have learned with experience.

If it comes between new and vintage, I'll take a vintage because most vintage hold up better than all of the above and they don't seem to taper.

 

[CacheGreen]

My Custom Hatmaker is...

There's a hatmaker here in Salt Lake City who will make most any style in a range of quality felt in tasteful colors. You choose everything: the felt, block, brim, band, edge trim, lining, etc. Any special request just ask. That's his job, he's a hatmaker.

He's made two fedoras for me that are perfect. These are 7X beaver and wear very well. I prefer a wider, flatter brim for sun protection and so was able to select a crown that looked good on me with such a brim. The price was under $150 each and it took two weeks.

Your hat is made, then during the final fitting he'll adjust any aspect of the hat and form the brim to your liking while you wait. This is a no-frills, out-of-the-way shop making real hats for hat men (and hat women - lots of styles as well) with many hats on display and expert knowledge. So, if you can visit him in person it's a productive experience.

That's it... Simply a good hatter doing his job. The shop is J.W. Hats if you need more information contact me directly.

Rob (aka: CacheGreen)

 

[Brad Bowers]

Welcome to the Lounge, Rob! It's good to have someone else from Utah around here.

I've seen the J.W. Hats website, but hadn't ever driven down to see the place. I'll have to do that now. Nice to know they make fedoras. I figured they were mainly a cowboy hat place.

Brad, up in Cache Valley.

 

[besdor]

I had no idea that there were so many custom hatmakers !
someone should open in New York . We get alot of customers with big sizes (over an 8 ) . None of the hat companies have bigger sizes . Do any of the custom hatters out there make over an 8?:cool2:

 

[Naphtali]

Beador:

That's but one side of the lovely coin. The other side is every one of them is worthy of our patronage -- they've been recommended by picky clients.

 

[Fedora]

I am sending a pure beaver 75 gram body out to some of you guys. It is from the portugal factory that optimo uses. You can roll it up etc. just like the blends. It really depends upon how the felt is made, and if it is a dress felt, or a western felt. Pure beaver tends to be a really soft felt, and most times even pure beaver actually has a bit of hare or rabbit in it so it is not too soft. The so called pure beaver felt makes for a denser felt when compared to rabbit or the blends, and all that this does it to make the felt more durable. The reason that most hatters use the blends is for one reason alone. Cost. And that is nothing new. That is the same reason that was used back in the day as well, as the really high end hats of that time, dress or staple were beaver. A blended hat generally makes a better dress felt than pure rabbit, and that is the reason you see so many dress hats in blends.

The Portugal factory is one of 3, that still makes vintage quality felt dress felt. This info is verifiable and I can give the reputable source, offline. That is why their blends are so good!!! But, wait until you see their dress beaver. This factory will make you felt that has no stiffener, or you can get it in various degrees for the dress hats, like a .2, .4, etc, in the crown(this gives the felt just enough body to hold the just like the Optimos.

In the end, the reason blends are used and have been used has nothing to do with the characteristics of the felt. It is about the cost of materials and the profit margin!! Heck, that is common sense guys. The finest dress hat that you will ever see is one of pure beaver, from Portugal, with just enough stiffener to make it hold its shape. There is no "best felt" for a dress hat. There are just various qualities of felt that can be used to make the hat. I think that every hatter, off the record would concur. Fedora

 

[gcollins]

I dont have time to read this whole thread, but of the modern made hats I have only two really stand out: Trent Johnson and Charlie Gladhatter Swindall. They are tough hats that look great and are done with intense attention to detail. If you want a stronger western felt to last you 100 years, you are crazy not to talk with Trent. He's the best (not the best value, mind you), all the way to his custom liners and sweats (you won't believe the quality of these). You should only come to Trent Johnson when you are ready for a serious hat. If you thinking about an e-bay $50 hat vs. a $300 Indy hat, you're not yet ready for Trent.

Charlie's hats are less western but not quite vintage style--somewhere in between, but really good and strong and with tremendous attention to detial on every aspect. The secret with Gladhatter is a woman named Dalia. She does detial and hats beyond belief. And she is both lovely and customer focused. Charlie may have been the teacher but Dalia just as well may be the modern master by now. Find better than these two hatters (GH and Trent) and I'll eat my hat.

Regards,
G

 

[Wild Root]

Get ready to eat your hat man. 1935 Dobb?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s 5th Avenue! Soft pliable felt, holds its shape but soft as a baby?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s bum! Nice snap brim, rich supple leather sweat band, genuine rayon satin liner with top notch craftsman ship. And the price?¢‚Ǩ¬¶. $90.00!!! The felt is something I never want to stop touching!


I refuse to pay money for a modern custom when I can find a superior hat for less.

I?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢m I alone on this?

=WR=

 

[jamespowers]

I?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢m I alone on this?

No, I am sure you are not. I am not at all enamored of cowboy felt hats. They are far too stiff and many people think because they are stiff and thick that that equals quality. In the over 100 hats that I own, the thick hats are probably the worst felt quality. They are doctored to appear dense and like high quality beaver.
The real test is how you can make a dense and light felt that can be crushable and easily fixed in daily use. The best thing to compare is a vintage Borsalino from the 40s. We all know that our hats get used, sat on, and abused in various ways. If you want a vintage feel hat then you are going to have to go to the people who use the bodies that will give you those results. I think just about any hatter could make a nice hat out of the Portuguese felt bodies but the workmanship tells all. You can have a great body with poor craftsmanship and it will make a poor hat just as you can have a lousy body with great craftsmanship and still yield a poor quality hat.
I like the feel of the new Portuguese felt. It is a nice felt with many of the properties of vintage. If I were to buy a new custom made I would make sure it was made of this felt.
Now the subject of this is a custom made hat though so we need to look at what is being produced today and what you are really looking for in the qualities of a hat. If you want a dress hat in light weight felt that feels very vintage then you have to go with the hatters that use this felt. If price is an issue then you are limited to a few that are right here on the Lounge that have been mentioned before. Call them up and make sure you convey all that you want in a hat and then see who can make you happy.
For me it has to be as close to what I could buy in the 1940s as possible. :cool2:

Regards to all,

J

 

[Fedora]

I refuse to pay money for a modern custom when I can find a superior hat for less.

I?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢m I alone on this?

Yes, but it is getting harder to find great vintage hats, that were top drawer hats back in their day. I am not talking about the Royal Stetson, etc here, as those were just run of the mill hats, along with most of what was sold back then. But, there were some higher quality hats that indeed very, very fine. The trouble with custom hats is the price. I think each one of these custom hats needs to come with its own tube of vaseline. IMHO. With that said, some of the finest felt that I have ever seen is modern felt, high beaver content dress felt from Portugal. If felt can be better, I have yet to see it, and this includes most vintage felt. :cheers1: Fedora

 

[jamespowers]

If felt can be better, I have yet to see it, and this includes most vintage felt. :cheers1: Fedora

Ever felt a hat made from Otter? How about mink? Both are very nice felt that has a feel all its own. As you say though, finding one is like finding hen's teeth.
I can agree with you about the Portuguese felt though it might be some ethnocentricity on my part. :cheers1:

Regards to all,

J

 

[Fedora]

Ever felt a hat made from Otter? How about mink? Both are very nice felt that has a feel all its own. As you say though, finding one is like finding hen's teeth.
I can agree with you about the Portuguese felt though it might be some ethnocentricity on my part.

I have not seen seen the otter, but I have held in hand a high mink content blend. But these underfurs are not superiour to beaver underfur. It is more of a novelty fur blend than anything else. Like mink/chinchilla, etc. You generally pay the piper too to own these hats. A hat made from the hair of Bin Laden's camel would fetch an astronomical price, but inheritedly would be less valuble than a rabbit felted hat.

On the Portugal felt, when I first saw the 3 Optimos that I bought, I was overly impressed with the felt, as it reminded me of the vintage hats. And the early Optimos that I bought were a high blend rabbit!! So, that is saying alot about the vintage look of the felt. Then I discovered that this Portugal feltmaker actually made a high end, high quality dress body from beaver, and you could specify the amount of stiffener, or non at all. And you could specify the weight. Now, while the blends from this company were pretty darn good, the beaver dress felt was simply amazing. It actually looks and feels better than most vintage hats of the non beaver type. Of course, I realize I am comparing apples to oranges. But, even with the portugal beaver felt looking so good, it will still be lacking, more than likely in one department. Taper resistence. The vintage felt, perhaps due to the age of the felt, just does not taper over time the way modern felt does. Fedora

 

[feltfan]

Process or pelt?

I've seen a lot of talk on this forum about the particular fur
content of hat felt. The implication is that the fur type
and quality determines the felt quality.

But I have heard elsewhere that part of what makes vintage
felt so great is the chemical processes used and in some cases
an aging process. It is my understanding that most countries
don't allow the sort of toxic waste produced by the processes
once used to create great felt and that most felt producers
are looking for the quicker buck and don't age the felt.

It does seem to me, by way of supporting this thesis, that
older hats with lower beaver content are nevertheless better
felt than what one buys today. Perhaps it's the Cravenette
process (in the case of Mallory...) or whatever, but the older
hats of even lower quality hold up better in the rain and for
bashing.

Anyone know much about these processes and practices?

 

[mthatter]

my two cents on taper

erased by mt

 

[jamespowers]

Aging. I wondered when someone would finally come up with this. If you get a NOS Borsalino with all the paperwork still attached, you will find that they mention that the bodies are aged before they are finished. I don't have the literature with me here but maybe later tonight I can give you the text of what they say. It must have not been much a secret in the day if they were willing to put it on every hat they sold.
The process is probably what really makes the difference. At what stage is it aged and is it preblocked? How long is it aged and is this before the waterproofing processes? These all would likely make a difference. Figuring out what they did then might produce a better hat today.
Oh, and for the record, Otter fur felt is probably the best I have ever come in contact with. Disney used to make them at what now seems like an exceptionally cheap price of $25! It doesn't seem too expensive to me but people were making 25 cents an hour then.

Regards to all,

J

 

[Fedora]

The ageing has piqued my interest!! That is the first time that I have ever heard of it. That is very interesting. I wonder what the aging did to the felt? I am trying to visualize what it would do, but come up empty. On the taper issue, I too have seen felt that wanted to continue felting while you are making the hat. I always figured it was not run through the felting rollers or whatever means they used to make the felt. That is, in the interest of time and profit, it was not run through until the felting process was complete. Stretching out a small body would indeed cause it too. But what bothers me about the stretching is, even if the cone was completely felted, it is still a cone. If you stretch a cone out on a straight sided block, the top of the cone is still stretched. It seems that since the cone was the felted shape to begin with, the stretched out felt would want to return to its original felted shape, hence taper. Perhaps I am letting logic get in the way? Just thinking out loud here.

On the chemicals used, it has always been my understanding that other than chemical dyes, the main use of chemicals was used in the carroting process. It use to be mercurial nitrate, but as you know it was outlawed in this country. I also heard that the mercury puffed up the underfur fibers better, and therefore the mercury felt had a softer finish to it. You could use rabbit and still get a beaver type feel to the felt. I guess that is what Joe Peters meant when he was telling us about the vintage mercury finish bodies that he had. At the time, I had no clue what a mercury finish was, but now it makes sense. Intersting stuff. Fedora

 

[jpdesign]

I have talked to another hatter about this lately. I have aged bodies myself in the past. This particular hatter has said that his contact at Winchester hat body company has told him they aren't able to age bodies anymore and still keep orders filled. he has hats come back after about two months that have shrunk. After he reblocks them they are fine. This is why a lot of custom hatters in the US are having problems with hats not holding shape, or shinking in the first couple months of use. Aging can be done before or after the final finishing. If you block a body that has not been properly aged and let it sit for a couple of months it will shink. They will even shrink while being worn. Basicly you just throw them in a room that is fairly warm for about two months. throw in a space heater to spead up the process. It is basicly a very slow final shrinking. Bodies will usually shrink around one size. This also causes the felt to become denser.

Jimmy

 

[jamespowers]

Vintage Felts do make a difference and time is probably why the felters and hatters of today do not do it. You need a lead time to build up a stock of felt that you will need into the future. Borsalino doesn't do it anymore and I am sure none of the others do either.
The vintage Borsalino tag states:
"<<Vintage Felts>>
Only at Borsalino is hat fur aged like vintage wines.....three years of aging during the felting process....one year of body aging. The result - a hat of supple and mellow quality for enduring wear."

They weren't kidding either. This is the difference between a manufactured felt and a crafted felt. Big difference in performance and taper. Can you imagine what would happen to the felt supply if they had to take three years to age it correctly? On the other side of that is the possibility and opportunity that a felt manufacturer today could stockpile a number of felts and start the aging process today. I think I could wait that long for a decent hat. My research into the specifics of this process are always continuing but it will probably never yield the complete process because the people who knew are either long gone or in another country. I suppose it might finally give me a good reason to visit Italy again though.

Regards to all,

J