Pecard Classic Leather Dressing vs. Pecard Antique Leather Dressing

[Claybertrand]

Just be careful. As mentioned before too much Lexol can give you the white bleed and sometimes can be difficult to remove or stop.
HD

Thanks for that advice. I apply it until its cleared from its initial wood glue looking color then I softly rub it in with Microfiber cloth. I time it and keep a close eye on how its absorbing. Then I let it dry completely before adding another coat. When I first apply it to a neglected jacket, its seems to suck up in the leather relatively quickly. As I apply additional coats after letting it really just hang and seep for a few days in between conditioning sessions, it gradually doesn't absorb as fast and I suppose eventually, it won't absorb much at all once it has been fully replenished moisture and oils wise.

I'm doing an old supposed horsehide that was flat and totally stiff like a big jacket shaped tray or platter when I got it. Its just had its fourth coat overall after giving it two generous ones then letting it hang for 2 weeks. Its really getting nice and plyable and growing in suppleness. But you can see that the grain of the leather is still sort of on the little bit crinkly side though not quite shriveled looking. It smells like leather again and is warmer to the touch than it was when I got it. It was almost naugahydish on arrival from Europe.

I'll be sure to keep a less is more approach and do thin layers.

 

[Seb Lucas]

Its like.....its a Mystery wrapped in a Riddle inside an Enigma stuck inside an old leather jacket pocket!!!!!!!!!! But much in the same sentiment you are expressing, if we can't even determine leather Types without a Particle Accelerator, a full DNA Lab and the physics of String Theory, how the heck can we scientifically determine which conditioner is working best beneath the surface of various leathers over time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Its looking like the endless rabbit hole many believe it to be.......

Aww hell, I'm gonna go do some darn conditioning as we seem to be pulverizing this dead horse!!!!! This thread is likely ending up where all others like it have in the past---right where it started!!

Actually there are scientific studies on the effects of dressing on leather. They can test the quality and strength of the leather fiber structure before and after treatment. A head of conservation at the Smithsonian sent me a study or two some years ago. They used these to determine that dressings made no long term difference to leather's condition. I lost the link. She also wrote in her email that despite the myth they do not use or endorse Pecards.

 

[Peacoat]

Seb, I usually agree with what you say, but I can't even come close on this one. I realize you are only posting what you received from the Smithsonian.

My experience has been totally opposite. Conditioners do make a difference and a big difference. Had I not cleaned and conditioned my leather tack over the past 30 years or so, it would have pretty much dried out, cracked and become worthless by now. Not so. With regular maintenance, it is soft, supple and still giving good service.

 

[Seb Lucas]

Seb, I usually agree with what you say, but I can't even come close on this one. I realize you are only posting what you received from the Smithsonian.

My experience has been totally opposite. Conditioners do make a difference and a big difference. Had I not cleaned and conditioned my leather tack over the past 30 years or so, it would have pretty much dried out, cracked and become worthless by now. Not so. With regular maintenance, it is soft, supple and still giving good service.

That's cool Peacoat. You're not disagreeing with me, you're disagreeing with the studies cited by the Smithsonian. And I feel bad because I can't provide them as back up. Nevertheless I think it is absolutely possible for dressing to protect leather from damage by coating it against the elements and harmful changes in temperature.

I think the broader point (from a conservator's perspective) is does dressing restore a leather jacket and the answer to this one may well be no. Like I said before - it'll look better until the 'make up' fades.

 

[bluesmandan]

Actually there are scientific studies on the effects of dressing on leather. They can test the quality and strength of the leather fiber structure before and after treatment. A head of conservation at the Smithsonian sent me a study or two some years ago. They used these to determine that dressings made no long term difference to leather's condition. I lost the link. She also wrote in her email that despite the myth they do not use or endorse Pecards.

Some years ago I read they used 50/50 neatsfoot & lanolin.... for preserving old leather bound books. (iirc.)

Obenhauf’s supposedly came out on top in some lab test of various preservatives.

I like Obenhauf’s, my homemade stuff, Lexol, and Venetian leather balm... but all for slightly different purposes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Carlos840]

That's cool Peacoat. You're not disagreeing with me, you're disagreeing with the studies cited by the Smithsonian. And I feel bad because I can't provide them as back up. Nevertheless I think it is absolutely possible for dressing to protect leather from damage by coating it against the elements and harmful changes in temperature.

I think the broader point (from a conservator's perspective) is does dressing restore a leather jacket and the answer to this one may well be no. Like I said before - it'll look better until the 'make up' fades.

I think what you are saying is very similar to something i read on VLJ a few years ago.

One thing to keep in mind is that the Smithsonian is focusing on preserving leather for the longest possible time, not keeping it in useable condition.
I think their point is that if a leather item is kept in a presentation window under controled conditions, then leaving it as is is the best solution.
But i if the leather item is in use, i think it is hard/impossible to afirm that it will last longer if not conditionned.

 

[dannyk]

I think what you are saying is very similar to something i read on VLJ a few years ago.

One thing to keep in mind is that the Smithsonian is focusing on preserving leather for the longest possible time, not keeping it in useable condition.
I think their point is that if a leather item is kept in a presentation window under controled conditions, then leaving it as is is the best solution.
But i if the leather item is in use, i think it is hard/impossible to afirm that it will last longer if not conditionned.

I being no scientist concur haha. We wear our jackets. Not nearly enough since we are psychos with way too many to usually really break one in. But they get sunlight, wind, rain, snow, spills, dirt etc...I would have to imagine cleaning it, conditioning it every now and then is better than letting the dirt and beer stains sit in the leather.

 

[Taikonaut]

I've been using camellia oil recently with great result. It quick dry, odourless and less likely to affect patina compare to pecard. I use it to gently soften stiff or add strength to weak leather.

 

[rocketeer]

Here I go again promoting MY favourite leather dressing, good old Ko-Cho-Line.
Why I have used this product and why do I value it's use above most other conditioner/dressings. When I purchased my first original wartime A2 way back in 1983(I still have it) it was still in a great wearable condition, but I knew that a 40 year old leather garment must have some deterioration being from a living thing now dead, despite all the preservatives that companies use in tanning methods and use on old car seats and furniture etc.
Walking in town I popped into the local saddlers and asked their advice as bridles and such get beaten to death with horse dribble and sweat. They thus recommended their(Whitam Saddlery's) most popular brand, Ko-Cho-Line.
Of course there was no internet in those days for in depth advice so used my Ko-Cho on a regular basis for the next 20 years. Then along came the internet for me but I still had not heard of Pecards.
Looking at my jackets, as I had gone through a few more originals by then, that old now 60 year old A2 was still wearing well and still being worn! Eventually through various websites and forums similar to this I came across Pecards, but I seriously thought 'Why should I change? My go to leather conditioner has been fine so far so no point in changing'. I can't really slag off Pecards or any other brand as I have not tried all, but I have tried Connelly Hide Food as used on old car seats but usually go back to Ko-Cho-Line.
So if it is good enough for a sweaty dribble laden race horse its good enough for a 74 year old jacket.

Remember: Ko-Cho-Line, probably the greatest leather dressing ever sold

Well I think so, and it is cheaper than Pecards over here at least. Ain't that right Scott (is he still on here? Cant remember his Fedora name)

 

[rocketeer]

With regular maintenance, it is soft, supple and still giving good service.

That last sentence just about sums up everything about old leather Mr P, be it a 70 year old wartime jacket, a vintage weekender bag an old car seat and even your lady friends old vintage handbag. We don't want these items to look like new we just want them to preserve that fabulous look old leather can have. Whether you still use those things is up to you

 

[Peacoat]

Here I go again promoting MY favourite leather dressing, good old Ko-Cho-Line.
Ain't that right Scott (is he still on here? Cant remember his Fedora name)

Have never heard of Ko-Cho-Line, but I will see if I can find it online as soon as I post this message.

The Scott you are thinking of is @ButteMT61 He hasn't posted in over a year. We exchanged PMs back in April-May of last year, but haven't heard from him since. I don't think he has logged on since then. Too bad as I enjoyed his posts.

 

[rocketeer]

Have never heard of Ko-Cho-Line, but I will see if I can find it online as soon as I post this message.

The Scott you are thinking of is @ButteMT61 He hasn't posted in over a year. We exchanged PMs back in April-May of last year, but haven't heard from him since. I don't think he has logged on since then. Too bad as I enjoyed his posts.

Yes we all had some great chat on quite a few subject. We had a bit of banter about conditioners, mainly my obsession with Ko-Cho-Line Vs Pecards, a bit on the humorous side I do hope.
I do hope he's ok, but to look on the bright side a lot of members leave forums for whatever reason, even I don't post that much here now as I used to.
Seeya, J.

 

[Peacoat]

Yes we all had some great chat on quite a few subject. We had a bit of banter about conditioners, mainly my obsession with Ko-Cho-Line Vs Pecards, a bit on the humorous side I do hope.
I do hope he's ok, but to look on the bright side a lot of members leave forums for whatever reason, even I don't post that much here now as I used to.
Seeya, J.

Yes, Scott is OK.

I found your Ko-Cho-Line online. It is a product by Carr, Day & Martin, the same company that makes my favorite saddle soap, the best I have ever used. Most horsemen think saddle soap is saddle soap, but not so. C, D & M's version is well above the rest of the pack.

Haven't been able to track down the ingredients in Ko-Cho-Line yet, but based on your high recommendation, I am going to order some after I go back and find an online distributor. Amazon probably carries it, but I didn't see a way to order at the C, D & M website.

 

[rocketeer]

Yes, Scott is OK.

I found your Ko-Cho-Line online. It is a product by Carr, Day & Martin, the same company that makes my favorite saddle soap, the best I have ever used. Most horsemen think saddle soap is saddle soap, but not so. C, D & M's version is well above the rest of the pack.

Haven't been able to track down the ingredients in Ko-Cho-Line yet, but based on your high recommendation, I am going to order some after I go back and find an online distributor. Amazon probably carries it, but I didn't see a way to order at the C, D & M website.

I have to admit that my sole recommendation for using Ko-Cho-Line is purely based on using it for 30 years without any deterioration to my old Lucky Seven A2. I don't wear the jacket that much now as it is a bit tight, but it did receive a dosing around 2 years ago so is due for another soon.
yes I have used it on other jackets and items but non are/were as old as that A2 so could not be used in comparison. I would think other saddlers leather preservatives are as good but I have not really tried them bar Connelly Hide food as described earlier. Pecards is available in England but I am at reluctant to use it as it is so much more expensive, as Ko-Cho maybe in the States. Here's a link
https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=Ko+Cho+Line&ref=nb_sb_noss_2

Ps, Sending you a PM.

 

[Peacoat]

@rocketeer thanks, I found it on US Amazon and ordered a tin. Appreciate the heads up.

 

[feltfan]

On US Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/Ko-Cho-Line-Leather-Dressing-Carr-Martin/dp/B002HJ4HU6/ref=sr_1_1
The listing notes that it is not suitable for aniline leather. Are you sure your jacket or liner wasn't dyed with aniline dye?

 

[Peacoat]

On US Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/Ko-Cho-Line-Leather-Dressing-Carr-Martin/dp/B002HJ4HU6/ref=sr_1_1
The listing notes that it is not suitable for aniline leather. Are you sure your jacket or liner wasn't dyed with aniline dye?

My leather jackets aren't old enough to put conditioner on them. I follow the recommendation of Aero and don't do anything for 20 to 25 years, or until the leather feels dry. When they need conditioner, I will use Pecard. Once a year I will put a little Pecard on the inside of the collars of the one or two I wear the most. My oldest jacket, still in my possession, (a Pakistani MC jacket) is now only 17 years old, * and shows no signs of drying out. It is an excellent MC jacket with a thick (1.4mm/3.5oz.) and soft hide.

I will use this conditioner on my saddles and tack.
_______
* The jacket my former girlfriend fell in love with is now about 40 years old. Some of you will remember that story. By now it probably needs a coat of Pecard. I need to contact her and see how the jacket is doing. Of course another guy, or ten, may have enjoyed that jacket over the years.

 

[feltfan]

My leather jackets aren't old enough to put conditioner on them. I follow the recommendation of Aero and don't do anything for 20 to 25 years, or until the leather feels dry. When they need conditioner, I will use Pecard.
(...)

I've always assumed that CXL, due to the wax, etc., would not need treatment for a lot longer than some other kinds of leather. It doesn't look dry in the way some other leathers can.

 

[edmond]

What do you guys think about saphir renovateur for jackets?

 

[rocketeer]

On US Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/Ko-Cho-Line-Leather-Dressing-Carr-Martin/dp/B002HJ4HU6/ref=sr_1_1
The listing notes that it is not suitable for aniline leather. Are you sure your jacket or liner wasn't dyed with aniline dye?

What type of leather are aniline please, is it Horse of just a method of tanning any leather. I have used Ko-Cho on my WWII A2 for years and it has had no il effects yet. Should it fall apart, which I do hope it doesn't , I would put it down to being a very old dead horse that has been worn a lot rather than the conditioner I have used.