Pecard Classic Leather Dressing vs. Pecard Antique Leather Dressing

[handymike]

I found that the results of Dr. Jacksons Hide Rejuvenator last longer than Pecards. Maybe 3 years or so.

 

[willyto]

A temporary fix versus long-term fix thought process...interesting. It'd be interesting to find some scientific data on leather care.

Could be done in this forum with the leather samples. I know a few users have them. Long term it would be super nice to see the differences.

 

[handymike]

Here is a test.
1950s Windward...Conditioned 3 years ago and hung in a dark closet.
No conditioner:

Pecards on inside panel (still supple, but color reverted back):

Dr. jacksons under collar, nothing on shoulders:

 

[Bamaboots]

When this comes up, which is often if one doesn't search, I find that it's sometimes fun to read though the posts to see if something new comes up. It doesn't and it hasn't.

Seems we're all looking for the holy grail; that leather conditioner that maintains the leather in an almost perfect state forever. It ain't out there.

The original tanning agent and conditioner was boiled brains. Boil the brains of a buffalo and paint it on the scraped, fleshed side of the animal before it became rancid and the hair was set and the flesh was softer. They say that "every animal has just enough brains to cure their hide." Think of a squirrel. I've read that producers of leather conditioners are attempting to reproduce that original formula synthetically.

My personal experience is with Lexol and Bick 4. Not a minutes difference between the two. I've used both on boots, saddles and tack and cant't distinguish a marginal difference.

I'm not a fan of saddle soap as most contain glycerines or silicone's that keep leather from breathing. Plus, anything that's not absorbed by or can be rinsed off of leather will collect dust and cause wear. As far as Vaseline, mink oil or anything that contains petroleum products, I'm out. See above.

I'm not a leather expert by any stretch. I can only speak from the experience I have with custom cowboy boots, saddles and bridle leather. I've found that to wash all in a ph neutral dish soap, (Ivory Liquid) and rinse in clean water, allowing it to dry and then treating with Lexol or Bickmore 4 produces great results. YMMV

 

[Hh121]

There are some amazing products that can rejuvenate tired leather, but it really comes down to personal taste. A restored leather garment tends to loose it's charm, but as always, others will disagree. Paradoxically I like restored leather in some spheres, like the leather seats of a classic car. These before and after pictures more or less sum that up. The car is a vintage Rolls Royce.
View attachment 156733 View attachment 156738

Amazing! Is that Pecad classic or Antique you were using?

 

[handymike]

Connelley Hide food no doubt.

 

[GHT]

Amazing! Is that Pecad classic or Antique you were using?

I wasn't using, the car seat restoration was done by the garage that looks after my vintage MG, I lifted the leather coat off the web.
I'm nowhere near as versed in leather garments as many are here on The Lounge, I wasn't sure if there are different hides for different uses, by that I mean the tanning process. If there was a difference then you might expect different cleaning requirements, much the same as woven fabrics like cotton and wool. To the best of my knowledge there's no difference, other than imperfections, which can be well hidden in things like car seat covers, simply by a row of cosmetic stitches, or edging piping. Leather garments, on the other hand, won't fetch top dollar if there are visible flaws in the hide.

 

[Psant25]

I use and like apple brand. Alan at JL recommends bee natural leather amore

Langlitz sells snowshoe labs...

Carrie at TB has told me vaseline...

...i do not think it matters what you use. If its dry wet it and if wet then dry it

 

[nick123]

Could be done in this forum with the leather samples. I know a few users have them. Long term it would be super nice to see the differences.

Dried out leather samples??

 

[Peacoat]

Amazing! Is that Pecad classic or Antique you were using?

It makes no difference as they are both the same formulation, according to TPTB at Pecard.

 

[nick123]

Here is a test.
1950s Windward...Conditioned 3 years ago and hung in a dark closet.
No conditioner:
View attachment 156796
Pecards on inside panel (still supple, but color reverted back):
View attachment 156797
Dr. jacksons under collar, nothing on shoulders:
View attachment 156798

Ah!

 

[dannyk]

As always happens in these threads we find we all have preferences and ideas. The one thing I we are fairly sure of is that anything that turns rancid over time will then rancid. It can be year and years for that to happen. Probably longer than most of us will realize. Not to mention when we pick up vintage jackets we really don’t know what if anything has been done to them over the years. Half the market says this the other half says that. Some say something specific for jackets but something different on boots. I think as long as you stay away from rancid turning products. Use sparingly in quantity and the amount of time you use it. You’ll be just fine. I don’t believe any makers who recommend one product over another would actively say use this product that destroys our product over time. Unlike disposable products these things are meant to impress with their durability so you’ll come back to buy other super expensive products in their range. Not to replace the one you just bought. And take what the manufactures say at heart but with your own twist on it. It’s been said Vanson has said to put their balm on it 2-3 times a year. But vanson’s target market is Daily wear for people who ride. With that kind of abuse it makes sense. Even for those of us around here who do ride we probably have so many jackets in rotation we don’t have enough wear to worry about that.

 

[Ernest P Shackleton]

I'm not a leather expert by any stretch. I can only speak from the experience I have with custom cowboy boots, saddles and bridle leather. I've found that to wash all in a ph neutral dish soap, (Ivory Liquid) and rinse in clean water, allowing it to dry and then treating with Lexol or Bickmore 4 produces great results. YMMV

This is some handy advice. Thank you. It somewhat piggybacks on how I sanitize used leather shoes and boots with Lysol concentrate (the kind you mix with water) and then heavy conditioning inside and out after they dry.

 

[Claybertrand]

Ah!

Here is a test.
1950s Windward...Conditioned 3 years ago and hung in a dark closet.
No conditioner:
View attachment 156796
Pecards on inside panel (still supple, but color reverted back):
View attachment 156797
Dr. jacksons under collar, nothing on shoulders:
View attachment 156798

I'm not trying to nit pick here--because this is a good starting comparison especially since we don't have many comparisons at all. I don't fault it too much because I don't think Mike necessarily set out to do this as an empirical 3 yr. science experiment to end all debates. This is at least a decent comparison but it has some obvious flaws IMO. Nothing earth shattering here but---the leather inside the coat and especially under the collar never sees any wear. So just by nature of its not being subject to wear as much as other "exposed" areas means it will always visually appear to be in much newer fresher condition. I think that you can kind of use these unworn areas to gauge when you have conditioned the leather back to as close to original as you can temporary as it may be. You can see when you've reached that original look to a degree.

Comparing shoulders and chest areas with under the collar and the inner sections.......I mean, at least this is a multi product comparison--but its not as APPLES TO APPLES as we may need to be more definitive. The differences in wear in the 3 areas are by nature too stark to be reliably compared. Ideally, we need the products all applied to equally worn sections of the hides to be able to see if any of them stands above the other over time.

I was gonna do a side by side with Lexol and Antique Pecard but I chickened out after doing a mini test and seeing that the feel may end up being different between the two and I didn't want one half of the jacket feeling different and maybe taking on a noticeably different look than the other.

When I'm doing a beater, I will see about trying at least a 2 product comparison.

 

[Claybertrand]

As always happens in these threads we find we all have preferences and ideas. The one thing I we are fairly sure of is that anything that turns rancid over time will then rancid. It can be year and years for that to happen. Probably longer than most of us will realize. Not to mention when we pick up vintage jackets we really don’t know what if anything has been done to them over the years. Half the market says this the other half says that. Some say something specific for jackets but something different on boots. I think as long as you stay away from rancid turning products. Use sparingly in quantity and the amount of time you use it. You’ll be just fine. I don’t believe any makers who recommend one product over another would actively say use this product that destroys our product over time. Unlike disposable products these things are meant to impress with their durability so you’ll come back to buy other super expensive products in their range. Not to replace the one you just bought. And take what the manufactures say at heart but with your own twist on it. It’s been said Vanson has said to put their balm on it 2-3 times a year. But vanson’s target market is Daily wear for people who ride. With that kind of abuse it makes sense. Even for those of us around here who do ride we probably have so many jackets in rotation we don’t have enough wear to worry about that.

You make some very valid points. Especially your recognition that we are all posting our own experiences. As such, you are seeing posts from Members who are telling of a variety of experiences with Saddles and Tack, Cowboy boots, work boots, real moto ride gear that sees daily use, casual jackets that are worn often, antique vintage leather, and just basic jacket hoarders (like myself ) who have a hundred jackets many of which never get worn. AND we are all giving our two cents on what we feel works for us.

Its no wonder the debate or opinions seem to be in such a tangle. There is also the probable reality as many have wisely expressed in this thread that there is no RIGHT answer. I feel this is due at least in part to differing intended use requirements and differing tastes.

 

[nick123]

I'm not trying to nit pick here--because this is a good starting comparison especially since we don't have many comparisons at all. I don't fault it too much because I don't think Mike necessarily set out to do this as an empirical 3 yr. science experiment to end all debates. This is at least a decent comparison but it has some obvious flaws IMO. Nothing earth shattering here but---the leather inside the coat and especially under the collar never sees any wear. So just by nature of its not being subject to wear as much as other "exposed" areas means it will always visually appear to be in much newer fresher condition. I think that you can kind of use these unworn areas to gauge when you have conditioned the leather back to as close to original as you can temporary as it may be. You can see when you've reached that original look to a degree.

Comparing shoulders and chest areas with under the collar and the inner sections.......I mean, at least this is a multi product comparison--but its not as APPLES TO APPLES as we may need to be more definitive. The differences in wear in the 3 areas are by nature too stark to be reliably compared. Ideally, we need the products all applied to equally worn sections of the hides to be able to see if any of them stands above the other over time.

I was gonna do a side by side with Lexol and Antique Pecard but I chickened out after doing a mini test and seeing that the feel may end up being different between the two and I didn't want one half of the jacket feeling different and maybe taking on a noticeably different look than the other.

When I'm doing a beater, I will see about trying at least a 2 product comparison.

Hence why I said "scientific". As in a laboratory. There are many instances where having scientists on hand would be great; ie this as well as indentifying leather types in WWII jackets...Handymike offered a nice visual aid, but I think we'd both like some data as to what happens beyond the visual scope. Or is the visual scope all that is needed? I don't know. Perhaps a scientific test with one type of leather used as a control would unearth the benefits of one conditioning ingredient over another, but that could possibly only solve one very unique type of tanned leather! And then there's the various thread! Then on the flipside, any scientific findings may piss off one of the conditioner companies! I'm out. We just need ample photography of old jackets in the event they decompose.

 

[Claybertrand]

Hence why I said "scientific". As in a laboratory. There are many instances where having scientists on hand would be great; ie this as well as indentifying leather types in WWII jackets...Handymike offered a nice visual aid, but I think we'd both like some data as to what happens beyond the visual scope. Or is the visual scope all that is needed? I don't know. Perhaps a scientific test with one type of leather used as a control would unearth the benefits of one conditioning ingredient over another, but that could possibly only solve one very unique type of tanned leather! And then there's the various thread! Then on the flipside, any scientific findings may piss off one of the conditioner companies! I'm out. We just need ample photography of old jackets in the event they decompose.

Its like.....its a Mystery wrapped in a Riddle inside an Enigma stuck inside an old leather jacket pocket!!!!!!!!!! But much in the same sentiment you are expressing, if we can't even determine leather Types without a Particle Accelerator, a full DNA Lab and the physics of String Theory, how the heck can we scientifically determine which conditioner is working best beneath the surface of various leathers over time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Its looking like the endless rabbit hole many believe it to be.......

Aww hell, I'm gonna go do some darn conditioning as we seem to be pulverizing this dead horse!!!!! This thread is likely ending up where all others like it have in the past---right where it started!!

 

[nick123]

We have accounts from people here that have used x product with success for years though, so I wouldn't worry too much. Should give some peace of mind for the next 20-30 years.

 

[Claybertrand]

Yer right man. I wasn't really worried either way about messing up anything with any particular treatment per se. But I just was asking around to the Lounge because I knew I would get a world of worthy responses even as tired as this type of understandably is. (I do feel a tad guilty for bringing up such a rehashed topic) It was kinda like....comparing notes with others just for the peace of mind like you said and on the chance something game changing has been discovered.

I've got three thirsty jackets sucking on Lexol as we speak. Its absorbing rapidly in these three parched jackets at room temp lying flat. I'll give them 45min to an hour then flip em and do the back sides. I'm doing a couple of moderate coats to each (2-3) then let them hang on a half mannequin or the padded hangers I "made" for my leather jackets (so they don't get malshaped from sharp angled hangers---Im gonna post my cheapo hanger hack in a minute to kill some time). I let them hang for a few days then I see about applying more layers if they still look parched and aren't yet supple.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Just be careful. As mentioned before too much Lexol can give you the white bleed and sometimes can be difficult to remove or stop.
HD