Papers on potenial Hess release

[Warden]

Rows over the jailing of Adolf Hitler's deputy became a key point of Cold War tension, papers reveal.

See BBC news report here

Harry

 

[Edward]

Interesting. I did have some sympathy with the humanitarian campaign to have the very elderly Hess released, though I imagine there was also a strong case for keeping him inside for his own protection, as I should have thought there would have been plenty of people waiting to exact their own revenge if ever he got out. I wonder would this have been a bigger political issue if more of the high rankers - Von Ribbentrop, Goering and the rest - had been sentenced to life instead of executed. (Of course, Goering may well still have killed himself, so it might not have affected him).

 

[Warden]

I must admit I always hoped we (the allies) would always go for the moral high ground. For example the treatment of prisoners etc.

Harry

 

[zaika]

geez. i feel bad for Hess as an elderly human being. but agree with you, edward, it was probably better for him to stay in prision. too bad they couldn't have at least made his winter years a little tolerable. poor man.

 

[Warden]

Got to agree with you there, as a lover of history I hoped the human race would learn from it mistakes, but I am now of an age to know each generation seems to make the same mistakes.

Harry

 

[Twitch]

For some of the reasons in the article and for the way they dismantled and cleaned the "crime scene" rapidly and thotoughly after his death I've always believed Hess was murdered.

I think some of those involved were simply weary of prolonging WW II-era sensibilities any longer.

 

[John in Covina]

The question seems to be: is the idea punishment, revenge, and/or rehabilitation. For the crimes committed, what are we seeking.

As an aside, I would like to add that although the philosiphy of people may change in some places, for the most part across this planet the tragedies that arise continue because man doesn't change. Those that seek power over others and have no empathy will always br brutal and swift in their repression, see what is happening currently in Burma (or what ever it is they are calling it these days). And it is occuring in Africa, and recently in Central Europe, the Middle East, ad nauseum.

Human nature is not really the Milk of Human Kindess, and we are all susceotable to influences and reactions to what is an escallation of force. I remember the LA Riots and the fact that there was murder looting fires and destruction that still hasn't been remedied. People in crowds can quickly become a mob and the mob mentality is a base part of human nature. Rage and hate are powerful motivators.

When we see other human beings as lower life forms then we lose our humanity, and anything is posible.

 

[Twitch]

Homo Sapiens are a violent species. I say this unashamedly because there is no way to change parts of which make up a species. A frog cannot and should not apologize for being aquatic.

From the time our proto-human ancestors were around evidence has supported our rather violent nature. Is it a deep seated reaction to danger on the savannah or being surprised in a jungle that we become violent quickly? I have no idea but do know that we aren't going to change by intellectually analyzing behavior.

We do violence to our species and others. It's a fact and there is no changing it because it is far too deeply seated in our reptilian and mammilian brain. It is a physiological response not a culturally learned behavior.

All we need do it observe other primates and we can see how violent the great apes and monkeys are amongst their own to understand it's widely and deeply entrenched.

 

[Warden]

I can understand that human nature is to be violent when in danger, but in the case of Hess, (and other long term polical prisoners around the world) should not reason take over hatred after a few years?

Harry

 

[KL15]

WHAT??!! This man was a high ranking official in a party that was responsible for the death of 12 million minorities and 6 million Jews. I'm sorry they didn't hang him as well. Or he could have had enough pride to take his own life earlier so we didn't have to worry about it anymore. He's a criminal, he was closely associated with a tyranical murderous dictator, and deserves no remorse and no mercy. He's dead now and the world is better for it.

 

[Warden]

I may be wrong as my knowledge on the holocast is not perfect, but I thought Hess was a POW before the death camps started.

Harry

 

[Twitch]

I was talking about what John mentioned- brutal repression around the globe, riots and rage not the actual Hess case. These is no reason I can guess why they may have killed him other than one groups could have become completely tired with the whole charade of keeing one mentally ill guy in prison.

And no Hess flew to Scotland in May 1941 having had nothing to do with death camps. During the 1930s Hitler seems to have noticed Hess was nuttier than he was and distanced himself somewhat from him. Other power grabbers like Goring, Himmler, Heydrich, Goebbels and Bormann were consolidating their strengths and alliances in the party.

 

[scotrace]

Albert Speer could probably be considered closer to the worst the Reich cooked up than Hess, but having admitted guilt and expressed remorse, got 20 years rather than the noose or life in confinement. I believe the Soviets would have been just as happy to hang him.

It is easy to forget now that every interaction with the Soviet Union by the Allies was tense, guarded, and layered with bureaucracy throughout the Cold War. Hess' treatment during his imprisonment seems like a snapshot of typical Cold War bombast.

 

[Edward]

WHAT??!! This man was a high ranking official in a party that was responsible for the death of 12 million minorities and 6 million Jews. I'm sorry they didn't hang him as well. Or he could have had enough pride to take his own life earlier so we didn't have to worry about it anymore. He's a criminal, he was closely associated with a tyranical murderous dictator, and deserves no remorse and no mercy. He's dead now and the world is better for it.

There were a lot of nasty things done, that's for sure, though while I support the trying of those responsible for terrible war-crimes, it always seems rather one-sided to me. They demonised Goering for the Blitz on London - and they gave bomber Harris a statue for targetting civilians in Dresden. All seems a bit double-standards to me. No sympathy with the Third reich here, I just feel that, well..... he who fights monsters, and all that.

I always liked the quote which is attributed to W.C.Fields as his final words before execution - "Well, this is certainly gonig to be a lesson to me."

 

[KL15]

I may be wrong as my knowledge on the holocast is not perfect, but I thought Hess was a POW before the death camps started.

Harry

He may have very well been. That still doesn't excuse the fact he is part of a group that sought to enact the final solution. As far as I'm concerned, that's enough.

 

[KL15]

There were a lot of nasty things done, that's for sure, though while I support the trying of those responsible for terrible war-crimes, it always seems rather one-sided to me. They demonised Goering for the Blitz on London - and they gave bomber Harris a statue for targetting civilians in Dresden. All seems a bit double-standards to me. No sympathy with the Third reich here, I just feel that, well..... he who fights monsters, and all that.

I always liked the quote which is attributed to W.C.Fields as his final words before execution - "Well, this is certainly gonig to be a lesson to me."

I understand where you're coming from. The fact is though, war is ugly and people die. Civilian casualties are, unfortunately part of war. And wether we like it or not, we live in a world governed by the aggresive use of force. It always has and it always will.

 

[Diamondback]

True, but in my opinion as a military-history student, the greatest warriors always strive to keep civilian casualties to as little as possible. LeMay openly admitted that if we had lost the war, he would've had a date with a rope...

 

[dostacos]

as Hess was out of it before most of the really horrible acts were committed, I can understand not hanging him. However, allowing him out may have created a cult type hero in some circles.

I firmly believe in Life without the possibility of parole

on the other hand those documents sound like the Russians not only wanted to imprison Hess but make his life a living hell, and that I am not so hot with.

 

[KL15]

as Hess was out of it before most of the really horrible acts were committed, I can understand not hanging him. However, allowing him out may have created a cult type hero in some circles.

I firmly believe in Life without the possibility of parole

on the other hand those documents sound like the Russians not only wanted to imprison Hess but make his life a living hell, and that I am not so hot with.

OK I can buy the life in prison sentence. And I really don't care if he had to do hard time. Not that he should have been abused. Although I will admit that if he did I would have a hard time being sympathetic. But this man deserves no mercy.

 

[KL15]

True, but in my opinion as a military-history student, the greatest warriors always strive to keep civilian casualties to as little as possible. LeMay openly admitted that if we had lost the war, he would've had a date with a rope...

I can buy that as well. I'm an amatuer historian and will agree the best warriors will try to keep civilian casualties to a minnimum. Unfortunately, I'm afraid this will start to subside with the current format of war.