Oxford Bags

[AntonAAK]

edit: this is the confusing part of my theory; the originals weren't called Oxford Bags, just Bags.

But the 1896 trousers above are described as Oxford Bags. But this is a modern description on a website. The person who marked up the photograph could be wrong. We would only know for sure if we saw such a description on a label or document dating from the same time as the trousers.

Edit: Ah, you've covered this above. Yes, a look at receipts would be useful.

 

[herringbonekid]

But the 1896 trousers above are described as Oxford Bags. But this is a modern description on a website.

yes, the name still needs to be cleared up, but i strongly suspect they were just called 'Bags' (or maybe 'blanket bags') before the fashion craze took off.

 

[AntonAAK]

I'm not quite sure what your point is then, HBK, if it does not concern the name. Is it that trousers resembling the 1920s Oxford Bags existed earlier and originated as rowing-wear? But if they are not as wide as the exaggerated 1920s ones why do they differ from any old trousers?

Or if your point does concern the name how do we know that 'bags' wasn't just a general name for rowing trousers, just as 'flannels' used to be used to describe cricket trousers?

Sorry if you've made this plain before but I am still confused.

Anton

 

[herringbonekid]

Is it that trousers resembling the 1920s Oxford Bags existed earlier and originated as rowing-wear?

yes in a nutshell. the rowing connection has never been mentioned in any fashion history version i've read. they always repeat the 'made to be worn over plus fours in the classroom where plus fours weren't allowed' line.
i'm debunking that myth !

But if they are not as wide as the exaggerated 1920s ones why do they differ from any old trousers?

they were made of blanket flannel, and would have been very wide for 1900-1925, before wider trousers took off generally.

Or if your point does concern the name how do we know that 'bags' wasn't just a general name for rowing trousers, just as 'flannels' used to be used to describe cricket trousers?

it most probably was a general name for these particular blanket fabric rowing trousers because they were so baggy for the time. 'Oxford' was (i think) only added later by outsiders to name their exaggerated fashion version, but the original Oxford Bag is really the fuzzy one.

 

[AntonAAK]

OK, that makes sense.

In that case it looks like you are right!

 

[Two Types]

For me, this line of research is all about myth-busting. 'Oxford Bags' are legendary fashion items yet are one of the most misunderstood.

I first heard the term used in the 1970s to describe the wide-legged, wide waistbanded flared trousers that actually resembled the American 'college pants'. I think this use has led to much confusion.

Most 1920s photographs that we see are the comedy versions - not the genuine versions. That is simply because the genuine versions were not super-wide, thus they are not easily identified in photographs. In reality they just look like wide legged trousers, not super-loose things flapping around like sails in the wind (earlier in this thread, BK referred to original catalogues describing 'bags' as having bottoms no wide than 25inches).

This research breaks the mythology and helps illustrate the true development of a garment that went on to influence trousers for the following 20 years.

That has to be a good thing.

 

[herringbonekid]

I first heard the term used in the 1970s to describe the wide-legged, wide waistbanded flared trousers that actually resembled the American 'college pants'. I think this use has led to much confusion.

last week, on this same research, i was looking in a vintage photo shop in Brighton and asked the owner if he had any old photos of men in Oxford Bags. he said "is that the 1970s trousers ?"... so the term must have been used then too. remember 'lumber' jackets ? another 70s - 30s influenced trend.

(i didn't find any bags photos but bought several cricket teams photos of the teens and 20s).

another time, in London, a man approached me and quite excitedly said "are those Oxford Bags ?" ... i had to point out that they were simply standard 11" 1940s suit trousers.

 

[AntonAAK]

last week, on this same research, i was looking in a vintage photo shop in Brighton and asked the owner if he had any old photos of men in Oxford Bags. he said "is that the 1970s trousers ?"... so the term must have been used then too.

I was not being entirely facetious in the 'College Attire' thread. Trousers called Oxford Bags were briefly very fashionable in the UK in the early 1970s. I distinctly remember my sister sulking when my Mum wouldn't buy her any because they looked ridiculous.

 

[Flat Foot Floey]

For me, this line of research is all about myth-busting. 'Oxford Bags' are legendary fashion items yet are one of the most misunderstood.

I first heard the term used in the 1970s to describe the wide-legged, wide waistbanded flared trousers that actually resembled the American 'college pants'. I think this use has led to much confusion.

Most 1920s photographs that we see are the comedy versions - not the genuine versions. That is simply because the genuine versions were not super-wide, thus they are not easily identified in photographs. In reality they just look like wide legged trousers, not super-loose things flapping around like sails in the wind (earlier in this thread, BK referred to original catalogues describing 'bags' as having bottoms no wide than 25inches).

This research breaks the mythology and helps illustrate the true development of a garment that went on to influence trousers for the following 20 years.

That has to be a good thing.

I can see that "myth buster" thing. But maybe there was a trend in the 20s? Making an clothing item of utility "cool" for students and other young folks does happen very often. Also for the comedy versions...extreme things just get more attention.But I still wouldn't vote there was no such thing in the 20s and it is all a media bluff.

Exaggeration? Yes, of course!
It's kinda similar to "Zoot suits". Yes, they excisted but were exaggerated in the 90s Neo Swing Era.

 

[Two Types]

http://www.somelikeitholy.com/brown....html?osCsid=afff3e8c208121871f7123ed81fc1bfe

This is a link to a website called 'Some Like it Holy', offering some interesting trousers that they describe as 'Oxford Bags'. I'm surprised I had never seen these before. They look rather good.

 

[AntonAAK]

http://www.somelikeitholy.com/brown....html?osCsid=afff3e8c208121871f7123ed81fc1bfe

This is a link to a website called 'Some Like it Holy', offering some interesting trousers that they describe as 'Oxford Bags'. I'm surprised I had never seen these before. They look rather good.

I like those.

 

[Two Types]

Re-reading this thread, I realised the very divergent opinions on what actually constitutes 'Oxford Bags'.

Does anyone out there own an original pair (i.e. British, from the mid-1920s) that they can post photos of, and which they can tell us the dimensions of?

Also, does anyone have catalogue scans or advertisements (must be British from the mid-1920s) showing Oxford Bags?

These might help with some of the myth-busting regarding the validity of the super-wide versions.

Cheers

 

[herringbonekid]

this thread began more as a discussion of the American version of the Oxford Bag; the high waistbanded 'collegiate' or 'campus' style. there are quite a few catalogue ads for those floating about:

the above are advertised as 22" bottoms, so the flared appearance of the illustration is an exaggeration.


however, i've never seen a British advert. if my theory about the rowing trouser is correct then no such advert would exist either, as they would have been made by Oxford school sports outfitters / tailors and not for sale to the GP. there may exist somewhere, an advert for the European or British fashion spin-off version (if indeed there was such a mass-made trouser ) but as far as i know it wasn't available by companies like Simpsons or Burtons so who would have made it ?

we can only hope that a lurker with a pair of blanket-bags is about to emerge with photos of a pair (in the same way that the Burtons belt back suddenly appeared in the show us your suits thread recently).

 

[herringbonekid]

this pair is the most frequently misrepresented as being the real thing, when in fact they were made for a bet:

this pair could be the real Brit / European fashion version. they look more like 28" - 30" circumference:

click below to see the short clip...


http://www.efootage.com/stock-footage/81443/Oxford_Bags_Trousers_-_HD/

 

[Two Types]

if my theory about the rowing trouser is correct then no such advert would exist either, as they would have been made by Oxford school sports outfitters / tailors.

Which is why I have contacted the shop, 'Walters of Oxford' - who have been there for over 150 years - and who provided clothing for rowers, such as caps and blazers etc.
http://www.walters-oxford.co.uk/index.html
Hopefully their archives will be accessible.

 

[Two Types]

Further info:
"Mr Acton always attracts attention by sheer distinction of manner while eschewing the eccentricities by which lesser men seek to make themselves conspicuous" (Isis). He is, however, said to have painted his rooms at Christ Church bright yellow. He also helped to make Oxford bags popular in the 1920s. These were floppy grey trousers which became wider and wider until they reached the ankle, and were introduced by Hall's the tailor in the High. It is said that the original idea was to wear them over one's hunting breeches, so as to be able to get out onto the field straight from a tutorial."
http://www.dailyinfo.co.uk/guide/cartoonist/eccentrics.html

This suggests that 'bags' were intended to wear over hunting breeches, rather than plus fours, which (due to the closer fitting nature of some - not all - riding trousers) makes a more plausible explanation.

 

[esteban68]

great work TT!

 

[herringbonekid]

... and were introduced by Hall's the tailor in the High.

just found this over on the London Lounge:

"I lived in Oxford for 20 years and knew Hall Brothers well. They made me a tweed suit and I bought the odd shirt and bow tie from them too. Legend has it that they invented Oxford Bags, but I have no evidence for that.

The shop was small, wood panelled and charming. The company and its premises were taken over by Ede & Ravenscroft, who are still there today.

The other great Oxford shop was or is Ducker and Sons shoes. They were on the edge of going out of business when I was last there two years ago. Again, great historic premises and heritage. I even wondered (idly) about the economics of buying the business."

 

[Two Types]

this pair could be the real Brit / European fashion version. they look more like 28" - 30" circumference:

The film is dated 1922 - which I thought was slightly before the fashion started. They look like they are genuine - the street somehow looks British and they are not too exagerated. I am sure that somewhere i have seen a still of a man in 'bags' leaning against a lampost smoking. I must try looking again.

 

[resortes805]

the above are advertised as 22" bottoms, so the flared appearance of the illustration is an exaggeration.

Not quite; I have some collegiate slacks from the 1930s that are a straight drop from knee to cuff at 22 inches, as well as those with a subtle bell curve, similar to those advertised. The latter were quite fitted in the seat and thigh, like sailor trousers.