Oxford Bags

[herringbonekid]

this is a photo of some Cambridge students in 1925.

the more old fashioned looking chaps all seem to be on the left hand side:

trousers appear to be about 8.5" to 9" at the bottom:

some of these look quite loose around the thigh but still narrow at the bottom:

Wait ! we have a progressive in our midst. second chap from the left has some wide legs going on.
no more starchy club collars along this end either. collar pins are de rigueur:

and finally, a traditionalist in plus fours. Oxford bags over the top of them ? definitely not:

notice that the wide legged trousers are all in light tones, which supports the theory that they were emulating the sporty look of the rowing trousers which were always in cream / off-white.



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[Two Types]

Fantastic! That chap is wearing what would appear to be genuine bags. Some of his friends certainly have wide trousers (22 inches), but his must be around 24 inches. I would be very interested to know what the club tie is that he is wearing.

 

[herringbonekid]

the trousers in photo 3 down could be wide bottomed too, and just appear narrow because of the front-on angle they're presenting to camera.

 

[Two Types]

http://oxfordbags.org/

I discovered this website today which notes: "The design apparently was motivated by the kind of pants which a student or oarsman or a rower wore above their shorts."

I thought i had stumbled onto someone else with the same ideas/sources. However, reading the post I suspect they have merely lifted your theory from this thread!

 

[Two Types]

I found a couple of interesting images on the 'Getty Images' website. From 1925, these would appear to be the 'real thing'.

These I would consider the original, not too wide Oxford Bags

Whereas these would be the wider style that emerged as the fashion began to spread:

 

[Two Types]

And here is Jack Buchanan (left) onstage circa 1925/1926 wearing a rather wide pair of formal evening trousers (compare them to ones being worn by Claude Hulbert).

Buchanan was closely identified 'Oxford Bags', having performed a song about them at a review in mid-1925. He is also credited by some as having been responsible for the spread of the wider trouser to the USA. Most likely as a result of performing the 'Oxford Bags' song in New York when the review transferred there.

 

[herringbonekid]

TT, i'm pretty sure that is Jack Buchanan also. same outfit as this image:

 

[Two Types]

Good spot. They don't have it listed as such on their website. I'll let them know.

 

[herringbonekid]

i wonder if those are shots from a film shoot ?

 

[Two Types]

from the V & A website:

This caricature is of Cliff Ryland who was performing at the Grand Theatre of Varieties, Hanley, during the week of 24 October 1904. He was billed as ‘Comedian, Vocalist and Story Teller’. Ryland always carried a cane on stage, and often wore a straw hat, a loud blazer, a red cummerbund and wide trousers with large turn-ups known as Oxford bags.

this doesn't prove anything of course, as we always have to question who wrote the information and whether they were using the term 'Oxford Bag' in a knowledgeable manner, or not. it also is not saying the trousers in the illustration are Oxford bags, since he clearly isn't wearing the outfit described. the outfit described sounds very much like the traditional garish variety-hall entertainer garb (of which the Fast Show's Arthur Atkinson is a parody). could there be a connection between variety hall entertainers with their exaggerated clownish attire and the Oxford Bag, or am i barking up the wrong trouser leg ?


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I have been noticing the connection between the old music hall entertainers and baggy trousers whilst researching 'Oxford Bags'. The notion of a comedy character in an ill fitting hat, tight and short jacket and baggy trousers dates back to the Victorian era. Then it reappears in Chaplin's Tramp. By the late 1930s British comedians (who had cut their teeth in variety/music hall) still used the uniform to identify them as the fool. Here's Arthur Askey in 'Ghost train':

It's just another thread in the rather twisted history of the 'Oxford Bags'.

 

[Patrick-Pong]

I Just had a suit made here in town, with Oxford bags, there was a query over the 24" at the bottom, the person in the sewing room thought the tailor who did my fitting, had made a mistake with the meausurements.

 

[Two Types]

We will be looking forward to seeing photographs of the results.

 

[herringbonekid]

pretty wide for 1925 huh ?

(Oxford of course)

 

[CircuitRider]

Those would double as a flotation device if one were to fall overboard during a cruise!

 

[Doc Average]

pretty wide for 1925 huh ?

(Oxford of course)

This seems like a good example of the "genuine" style, and you make a good point. The trousers pictured aren't monstrously wide, but in comparison with trousers from the end of the 19th Century right up to the middle of the '20s, these must have seemed very wide indeed, especially those worn by the chap nearest the camera. I recently found this blog post which provides a bit of background to one of the most famous photos of '20s bags. Hopefully it hasn't been posted here already, but apologies if it has!

http://tintrunk.blogspot.co.uk/2009/11/bags-at-their-widest.html

I always thought that the gent in the photo looked very sheepish for some reason! It's interesting to see the other picture of him after he'd won the bet - it does help to put a whole new slant on things.

Anecdotally, my grandfather (born 1905) always told me that his bags were 22 to 24 inches at the bottom. He was pretty specific in saying that he started to wear them in 1926. He wasn't a well off Oxford alumnus though - he was a coal miner! Having seen family photos from the period, bags seemed to have caught on pretty quickly with some of the younger, flashier, "gallus" men in the local area, perhaps in the same way that the "Edwardian Look" became popular with youths in the '50s after starting out on Saville Row. He also said that he wore them with a short "bum-freezer" jacket. Looking at the photo of Jack Buchanan a few posts back, his jacket does seem on the shorter side, though it is difficult to tell since he has his hand in his pockets. Certainly I think long jackets don't look right with wider trousers.

 

[herringbonekid]

good anecdotes Doc. it all gels perfectly with what we've found so far (except for the part about him being a coal miner. those in the provinces weren't supposed to be so quick on the fashions of the times !).

 

[Doc Average]

good anecdotes Doc. it all gels perfectly with what we've found so far (except for the part about him being a coal miner. those in the provinces weren't supposed to be so quick on the fashions of the times !).

Yes, his memory could've been playing tricks on him! 1926 was the year of the General Strike (in which he also claimed to have robbed a train!), so I don't see how he could've afforded Oxford Bags! However, he certainly was a dapper wee man in his day, so I think I can assume he was wearing them in the later part of the decade. He lived in a village on the outskirts of Edinburgh which could've allowed him access to some fashion forward shops - plus he didn't marry until 1939, which would've given him some spare cash for quite a while. (After he married, my granny tried to get him out of flat caps and into what he called a "soft hat" - the hat lasted about a week!) I plan to raid the family photo collection when I visit my folks in Scotland for Christmas. I'll see if I can come up with some evidence while I'm there.

 

[Nick D]

My great-grandpa was a railroad man in rural Michigan, working in the yards. On the weekends he wore three-piece suits and spats.

 

[Two Types]

The spread of 'bags' to the provinces is certainly something that was noted by the press of the period. I recall a newspaper in Hull reporting on the first appearance of 'bags' in around the middle of 1925. And by late 1925 they were certainly popular among the 'wide boys' and barrow boys of London.

More to follow when the research is completed.

P.S. I look forward to seeing the family photos, especially the Oxfords!

 

[A2M]

Hi every-body, first of all, that's a real pleasure to have the opportunity to talk to you.
I just want to have some reactions from your parts, I have in mind to produce some oxford reproductions. I have a little company in France and I would like to propose to my customer products that would pleased of course but I'm trying to make real good pants.
Would you accept to tell me what you thought about the first prototype I made.
Thank you for all.