Oxford Bags

[Two Types]

I'm also wondering now, if the fluffies are indeed fluffy, or were just they way period cameras rendered flannel, serge or indeed a texture similar to the first pair you posted. Old cameras and processing techniques have a tendency to do some rather odd things (notably certain yellows often appear pitch black).

As a former photo editor (and someone who formerly worked in 1920s and 1930s photo archives - including some of the ones that are the source for these photos) I would say the material is fluffy. If you were to handle the original glass negatives for some of these, you would find an absolutely perfect image. Also, the pics come from many different situations, making it unlikely to be a trick of the light etc.

 

[Dinerman]

This pair is mine- I'll see if I can find additional detail photos.

 

[Feraud]

i don't think so... these babies look fluffy: (the trousers, not the ladies)

looks like terry cloth!!

 

[herringbonekid]

'Debagging' : to remove someone's trousers ('bag's'). An ancient student sport.

from the Alien's guide to Oxford.


Fuzzies on film:


http://www.britishpathe.com/video/meet-the-oxford-crew-2/query/oxford

 

[Chasseur]

Not sure if it'll help much, but I have two pairs of British made sporting trousers, one pair appears to be 1910s or 1920's (judging by the label and lack of pleats and the rear buckle, as well as the narrowness of the trousers) and another which I think are 30's-50's. Both are made from an odd, cushy wool, though they aren't knapped. They don't feel or look expensively made, and the later pair are clearly off-the-peg.

Cobden (or anyone else) I'd love to see some photos of the white sporting trousers.

 

[Cobden]

'Debagging' : to remove someone's trousers ('bag's'). An ancient student sport.

from the Alien's guide to Oxford.


Fuzzies on film:


http://www.britishpathe.com/video/meet-the-oxford-crew-2/query/oxford

Alright, I was wrong!

 

[Cobden]

Just another thought; whilst the idea that they were designed to hide plus fours has, it appears, be pretty thoroughly debunked, it could be that the bagginess is to allow it to be easier to go over something else: shorts and shoes. It strikes me as very plausible, in an era where shorts were something that was not worn in the street, a rower (for example) would want an article of clothing to cover his shorts that doesn't require removing his footwear - the bagginess of the trousers would certainly allow for that, whilst standard skinny trousers of the period wouldn't

 

[herringbonekid]

...it could be that the bagginess is to allow it to be easier to go over something else: shorts and shoes.

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?8423-Oxford-Bags&p=1438682&viewfull=1#post1438682

 

[Two Types]

Last weekend I was in a vintage store (Levinsons in Cheshire Stret) and they had a rail full of rowing club blazers. They also had a sack of club blazers which they brought out from the back room. All I could think of was 'Will there be a pair of fluffies lurking in amongst the blazers?'
My heart beat faster - but we reached the bottom of the bag and there were no fluffies to be found. Although he did have a couple of pairs of traditional 'whites'.

Also, I emailed the Victoria & Albert museum to enquire if they had any in their collection. No reply, I'm afraid. A couple of years back they had an exhibition on the history of sportwear. I wonder if they had 'fluffies' in the exhibition?

The search continues.

 

[herringbonekid]

Also, I emailed the Victoria & Albert museum to enquire if they had any in their collection. No reply, I'm afraid. A couple of years back they had an exhibition on the history of sportwear. I wonder if they had 'fluffies' in the exhibition?

good thinking... if they have a pair to view i'd be interested in coming along to see them too.

 

[Two Types]

good thinking... if they have a pair to view i'd be interested in coming along to see them too.

You are going to like this post:

This is a link to the River and Rowing Museum in Henley: http://www.rrm.co.uk/exhibitions/permanent-galleries.aspx

On their website they have photographs of two pairs of rowing trousers. One is from the 1930s and one from 1896. They are described as 'blanket type trousers', as 'blanket bags and .... wait for it .... OXFORD BAGS!!!!

http://72.249.185.131/collection/results.do?id=1535&db=object&view=detail
http://72.249.185.131/collection/results.do?id=1538&db=object&view=detail

So, it appears, that the museum of rowing has described a pair of 1896 rowing trousers as Oxford Bags. It seems your theory may well be right.

 

[herringbonekid]

well there is it folks !

Object Name
trousers
Object Name
Oxford bags
blanket bags
Brief Description
Pembroke College, Oxford, blanket bag trousers.

Worn by L Higgins, Captain of Boats 1896, who then gave them to D Prichard who wore them as Captain of Boats in 1954.


Beige blanket-type trousers with a six button fly front and two side pockets. Red stitched "DT44I" inside the back waist. "DCMP" is hand written in blue ink inside the back waist. "JX" is handwritten in black ink inside waist (front right waist linning ragged). The knees and seat worn and the left ripped at the top back, both legs are worn at the bottom.


---

Object Name
trousers
Brief Description
A pair of blanket-type trousers worn by H. Carver, made by Arthur Sheperd in 1925.

Cream coloured blanket-type trousers with turn-ups, a four buttoned fly front, two side pockets, a back half belt trim and six buttons for braces. A handwritten label reads "H R Carver 20.2.25".
Accession No
1996.78.6
Collection
Rowing

...


excellent find Two Types ! a sticky gold star to go by your name ! :eusa_clap

 

[Two Types]

My pleasure. It is a genuine breakthrough. The next thing will be to see the trousers in complete detail. The museum also seems to hold lots of documents such as receipts for rowing clothing. It would be interesting to see the wording used on those.

I think this will stand as a good example of why one should not lose faith in the FL, and realise that there is always something new to discover .....

HBK: I feel that as the originator of the theory that 'fluffies' were the original Oxford Bags, you should be credited for this breakthrough. And maybe the 'Oxford Bags' wikipedia page should be updated to show the truth!

 

[Flat Foot Floey]

Nice research work, guys. But do we need another name for the really wide pants now? You proved that they originated by the roving club, blanket type- trousers and are related to the "fluffies".
But therer were some bigger pants and they did get some attetion in the media (even then not just now on the interwebs).

 

[herringbonekid]

oddly enough, the photo i scanned earlier:

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?8423-Oxford-Bags&p=1438377&viewfull=1#post1438377

is also from 1896, same year as the pair pictured above in the Henley collection, so that chap may well be in this photo.
also, they may go back even earlier. 1896 is just the earliest confirmed date we have so far.

 

[herringbonekid]

Nice research work, guys. But do we need another name for the really wide pants now?

what those abominations are termed doesn't bother me.
in my theory 'Oxford bags' is most probably the name given to the fashion spin-off of the originals which were just 'bags' so they are 'Oxford Bags'; the silly fashion verison.


edit: this is the confusing part of my theory; the originals weren't called Oxford Bags, just Bags. so, in a way, all of those articles that picture trousers like the ones in FFF's post above are Oxford Bags. but the original source of 'Oxford Bags' is the 'Bags'; the blanket-fabric rowing trouser.

 

[Flat Foot Floey]

Maybe I missed the point. You just want to prove the date? (not the name itself)

Edit: Missed your post. Ok, I got confused myself.

 

[Two Types]

FFF: I don't think we need to find another name for those examples. In the same way that I would hesitate to describe the American versions marketed as 'college pants' as 'Oxford Bags' (although they are closely linked), I would not call those examples 'Oxford Bags'.

To me, the super-wide trousers were never genuine 'Oxford Bags'. I suspect they were hastily made for a newspaper gimmick. Possibly a press agency having them quickly made so they could sell photographs and cash-in on the gimmick for wider trousers (as a former member of staff at a press agency, I can guarantee that the archives are full of media-invented gimmicks. I worked with two men who had dressed up as Arabs and cycled around London on a tandem, pretending to be buying property. This was during the oil boom of the 1970s. It made a double page spread in a Sunday newspaper).

I doubt if there is any evidence of these trousers being available on the mass market. Has anyone ever seen 40 inch bags advertised in clothing catalogues?

 

[herringbonekid]

The next thing will be to see the trousers in complete detail. The museum also seems to hold lots of documents such as receipts for rowing clothing. It would be interesting to see the wording used on those.

...so a trip to Henley might be in order, provided we're allowed to handle and photograph the bags.

 

[Two Types]

Absolutely.