OPINION: Did Hats Direct Cheapen the Fed?

[KatintheHat]

OPINION: Did Hats Direct Cheapen the Fed?

When they cut down the crown and brim weren't they just falling into the same routine as all other hat sellers? To cut costs?

I'm of the opinion that that's exactly what they did.

 

[Mike in Seattle]

I don't like the smaller brim and crown of the new version...and while the small amount of savings in felt may slightly reduce their cost, I don't think it's going to create more sales.

 

[Belegnole]

From what I have read I would say not. I believe that reducing the overall materials used in the hat does not reduce their manufacturing cost much, if at all. Though I am not aware of how much of the felt that hits the floor can be reclaimed the reclamation must cost something. Thus minimizing any gained profits from shrinking the overall size. From what I have heard the change was more to give the Indy crowd what it wanted than anything else. In fact they worked along side of some of the biggest names in the "Indy Hat world" to come up with the Federation IV.

Hatsdirect and Akubra Hats, together set about creating a new hat, selecting an older hat block set from that era. Advice from Mark Cross (Indygear.com) and Steve Delk (the hat maker for the latest Indiana Jones movie, Adventurebuilt) have assisted with advice and specifications for the new hat.

I have read in other places that this statement was correct..

as to the hat itself....either you like it or you don't. I like Indy, I like the hat, but I don't like the hat because I like Indy...

 

[kaosharper1]

Yes. My understanding is that the new Fed has proportions that are closer to the original Raiders hat and the block was an original one from the 1930s.

 

[carter]

From what I have read I would say not. I believe that reducing the overall materials used in the hat does not reduce their manufacturing cost much, if at all. Though I am not aware of how much of the felt that hits the floor can be reclaimed the reclamation must cost something. Thus minimizing any gained profits from shrinking the overall size. From what I have heard the change was more to give the Indy crowd what it wanted than anything else. In fact they worked along side of some of the biggest names in the "Indy Hat world" to come up with the Federation IV....

You are correct. Ron from HatsDirect has told us that Akubra dusted off the old blocks to make the Federation IV. Hatters don't keep old blocks because they need more paperweights. Styles may come around again. They can be cyclical. He did not speak to the flange.

A felt body is a felt body. The difference occurs in the composition of fibers in the felt and the number of steps used in making the hat. Heritage Quality felt is more expensive than Standard. A Fed IV Deluxe is more expensive than a Fed IV Standard.

I doubt that Akubra set out to cheapen the Federation or that HatsDirect did either. Is the style different than the Federation III? Yes it is. That's why I'm happier with my Federation III that I swapped with Dumbjaw and he's extremely happy with the Federation IV he received in return. The proportions of the Federation III suit me better. The proportions of the Federation IV fit DJ better.

Not all change is driven by some evil purpose. Perhaps it's a decision made to sell more hats as a result of market analysis.

 

[tonyb]

I can see how reducing the dimensions of a particular hat model might lower its manufacturer's production costs, but I kinda doubt that's what happened in this case (although I have no way of knowing either way).

The outfit that supplies many (most?) American custom hat makers has as basic offerings hat bodies in Western weight and dress weight (and three types of fur composition as well, but that's a subject for another time). The Westerns are larger (taller and wider) and the felt is considerably thicker. And yes, they cost quite a bit more than the dress weights, for obvious reasons.

My guess is that Akubra is using the same bodies on the Fed IV as they used in its predecessor (again, I have no way of knowing), but they blocked it to have a shorter crown and they trimmed a bit more off the brim. Provided the thickness of the felt remains the same, the newer model would indeed have less material in it, but that "lost" material would end up as waste.

I suppose Akubra may be making the new model's bodies smaller, though. I'm guessing that would mean using shorter cones in that gizmo that performs the initial step of turning the loose fur fibers into a felt hat body.

I don't have a Federation, although I certainly appreciate why they are so popular around this place, populated as it is by guys who in general prefer the "Golden Era" hat styles, with those tall, relatively straight-sided crowns. It's a style I generally prefer myself, and it's what I usually make for my own use, but I gotta tell ya, even by Golden Era standards, those earlier Federations are LARGE hats. Too large, I think, for many guys. It can come across kinda costume-y, especially on smaller, younger guys.

The somewhat smaller Fed IV is still a largish hat, though. To my eye, it's a style that would "work" for a larger slice of the population.

 

[indycop]

I only have a Federation III and Dee has a Fed IV. But I noticed on her IV the brim definitely has less snap/rigidness and the edge of the brim is just raw not rounded smooth, if that makes any sense. Sorry no pics the camera is dead. RIP

The felt is the same and it is a nice hat just those little differences I noticed. I personally like a little stiffer brim and soft crown.

 

[Colby Jack]

I bet you could sand the edge down and make it nice and round...

 

[KatintheHat]

Recently I had a bad experience with an Akubra C.E.O. and crown height. It's supposed to be 5 1/2" open but... I had a heck of a time stretching it to that wet and it shrunk back to lowness. I got it lookin OK but, I was really disappointed in it's height. I would have sent it back but the owner wouldn't let me.

I just tried to order a Fed III in size 60 and guess what? "Not available anymore."

 

[Not-Bogart13]

Hatdirect did indeed try for something closer to the Raiders hat. But based on the feedback I think they were getting, the change supported overall opinions about the ideal measurements for it. I think it just became clear that the new version would be more commercially successful. Just spit-ballin'. Either way, it wasn't to cut costs.

 

[MattJH]

I gotta tell ya, even by Golden Era standards, those earlier Federations are LARGE hats. Too large, I think, for many guys. It can come across kinda costume-y, especially on smaller, younger guys.

Absolutely agreed. If HatsDirect didn't change the proportions of the Federation III to those of the Federation IV, I wouldn't own two.

 

[bendingoak]

From what I have read I would say not. I believe that reducing the overall materials used in the hat does not reduce their manufacturing cost much, if at all. Though I am not aware of how much of the felt that hits the floor can be reclaimed the reclamation must cost something. Thus minimizing any gained profits from shrinking the overall size. From what I have heard the change was more to give the Indy crowd what it wanted than anything else. In fact they worked along side of some of the biggest names in the "Indy Hat world" to come up with the Federation IV.



I have read in other places that this statement was correct..

as to the hat itself....either you like it or you don't. I like Indy, I like the hat, but I don't like the hat because I like Indy...

You are correct sir. It wasn't for saving. It was to bring a better Indy hat to their customers with the help of Mr. Delk

It was an improvement all around and not a thing to save money.

 

[Ande1964]

I bought a Fed III in black, because it was a good deal, and I wanted the Deluxe felt. I agree that it's a big hat, but I made it work for me. I bashed the crown down a bit, and just yesterday I cut about a quarter inch off the brim.

So, I guess I like the new ones better, too! This one worked for my budget, though, and I'm not scared to cut down a brim if I have to.

Anj

 

[daizawaguy]

By `cheapen` did you mean the price? If so, its converted into US ollar and the Australian currency weakened...thats why the US Dollar price got cheaper.

 

[Doctor Strange]

No, it wasn't about cheapening anything. It was entirely about selling more hats.

It was about refining the hat design to be able to tap into the guaranteed renewed interest in Indy associated with the release of Crystal Skull. After all, there was no archeology or guesswork involved in reproducing Ford's original film hats this time, as there had been in the earlier Federations created decades after Raiders. For the Fed IV, they got sizing input direct from Steve Delk of Adventurebilt who made Ford's hats, and they can truly claim that the hat's proportions are exactly like the movie hats. That's a way better marketing position than they ever had before!

And let's face it, the slightly smaller crown and brim do look better on a lot of folks. There's no getting around that the older Feds are extreme fedoras! (Speaking personally, I've had a Fed III since 2003 or so, and I've worn it plenty... but honestly, it still seems just a little too big for me. The main reason that I recently ordered a Bogart is to get an equally nice Akubra fedora with a more modest brim and crown.)

 

[rrog]

I don't know about the costs or anything like that, but if y'all keep talking about the Fed IV, I'm going to buy one. I really mean it. I will. And don't even think about trying to call my bluff on this. I'm already on the edge...!

rrog

 

[KatintheHat]

The economy was on a downhill slide before Indy 4 came out. Companies and Pols can say what they want but, it often times is just whistling past graveyards. It's just my opine but, I truly think that economics played a big part in the downsizing. And I don't think that it has been limited to the Fed.

During the last Great Depression and WWII they rolled the felt out thinner, to keep costs down. Why wouldn't they be doing the same thing today? I'd actually prefer a thinner felt.

Again, it's just my opinion. I'm not trying to flame anyone.

 

[MattJH]

It's just my opine but, I truly think that economics played a big part in the downsizing.

Opinions are fine, but the factual reasons for the change from the III to the IV are well-documented, including in this thread.

 

[Marcus Brody]

It's obviously not a coincidence that the Fed 4 was made to conform to the more generally agreed Indy hat dimensions and block shape. Considering the Federation from the start was made for and with the assistance of COW folks, this change was more about offering a better product to the primary buyer.

Also, note that in hat making, generally the hat bodies are always cut down to size. So it's likely that the Fed 4 uses a hat body that has a wider "brim" compared to the finished product anyways.

 

[KatintheHat]

Opinions are fine, but the factual reasons for the change from the III to the IV are well-documented, including in this thread.

Factual Smacktual... Ya aint never heard a line of Bull before?

Hey, I don't go to the bar as often anymore because ... I'm trying to cut back on having fun.

Forgive me for saying this but... Akubra is making short crowned hats these days. Not even close to what they are claiming.