My Himel Experience (v2)

[dudewuttheheck]

@Mark R I do like to stare at stitching, so I'm pretty nitpicky when it comes to all of that. As I said, I was still overall satisfied with both jackets in terms of construction. I would not have been satisfied at all with Jeo's jacket.

 

[red devil]

To stay with the topic ... I take the following with me from this thread: No matter what reputation a manufacturer has, it doesn't hurt to include what is personally important to you when you order. I do that for almost every customized order.
So if I wanted to buy a jacket from Himel, I would say that the measurements are important to me and that exact seams are important. And I would like to have photos after QC and before shipping, please. I'm pretty sure I'll get exactly what I want then. I think the fallacy is to give a leap of faith, because of good marketing you imagine all is safe. From experience, however, it is the case that mistakes are more the rule than the exception and there is always a lot of interpretation involved as to what is good and what is bad. In other words, the more precise the specification and the requirement, the lower the risk of getting something wrong.

Yes, it never hurts to be precise, if anything you flag with the manufacturer that they need to take you seriously. But then again you are not a real customer but an annoying one?

That's the take-away I have from @himelator 's message...

One of the reason I pay more for jackets, is the fact that I can trust the maker to do what is best. As a contrast, with Five Star, you get what you order and you need to be very precise - this is not to knock on them, they do not do good or bad intentionally, they give you full control which is different, and more importantly they communicate this very clearly.

With Himel, it seems you get what is best for him, unless you are flagging yourself as a savvy customer. In other words, the burden of QC is on you - a customer with no professional knowledge. So what am I exactly paying for? Just marketing? Or more precisely empty boasts?

 

[Marc mndt]

the fact I am here is a testimonial to how much I care about my service, my brand and my customers, and that includes the difficult annoying customers as much as the wonderful lovely ones.

Yes, it never hurts to be precise, if anything you flag with the manufacturer that they need to take you seriously. But then again you are not a real customer but an annoying one?

That's the take-away I have from @himelator 's message...

I really don't know how to read Himel's comment, whether he's addressing his customers in general (both the difficult annoying and the lovely ones) or whether he's addressing customers who bring forward issues, dismissing them as being annoying.

 

[red devil]

I really don't know how to read Himel's comment, whether he's addressing his customers in general (both the difficult annoying and the lovely ones) or whether he's addressing customers who bring forward issues, dismissing them as being annoying.

It is very ambiguous, but why go for such ambiguous wording in the first place?

 

[Marc mndt]

It is very ambiguous, but why go for such ambiguous wording in the first place?

I think it's best to regard his comment about difficult annoying customers as slip of the tongue (or keyboard).

 

[willyto]

What is going on here?

Is soneone drunk and writing?

Bartender Comment: I think it might be a case of 'suicide by mod'. Dealt with now - you should all be able to carry on uninterrupted.

 

[torfjord]

I really don't know how to read Himel's comment, whether he's addressing his customers in general (both the difficult annoying and the lovely ones) or whether he's addressing customers who bring forward issues, dismissing them as being annoying.

Honestly, I think you might be reading too much into that comment. I think a lot of people who deals with people can sort of understand what he meant by that. I'm in recruiting and there are clients and candidates that are a breeze to work with ("the lovely ones") and then there are those that are more difficult to manage ("the annoying ones"). Sometimes I have clients that make unreasonable demands maybe because they don't understand my work or the market. I'm sure Himel, and anyone really who is selling a product, have customers that are like that.
Just to be perfectly clear, I don't think that expecting clean stitching is unreasonable, or that jeo or Carlos have been unreasonable
I do agree that it was sloppy and unnecessary of him to use those words to describe customers in this context. But I prefer to give him a little slack, because I think I can understand what he meant.

 

[air]

I really don't know how to read Himel's comment, whether he's addressing his customers in general (both the difficult annoying and the lovely ones) or whether he's addressing customers who bring forward issues, dismissing them as being annoying.

To be fair, they didn't bring forward the issues to him. In fact they even said they weren't interested in getting a remake.

Whether it was accidental or deliberate Himel sold those jackets and has to live with it. I am glad @jeo and @Carlos840 posted their reviews, learning how to inspect purchases is very helpful for a new member like me.

But some parts of this thread still leave me a bad taste, pointing out significant flaws followed by saying you aren't trying to dissuade others from purchasing is double faced no matter how you slice it.

 

[red devil]

I think it's best to regard his comment about difficult annoying customers as slip of the tongue (or keyboard).

Honestly, I think you might be reading too much into that comment. I think a lot of people who deals with people can sort of understand what he meant by that. I'm in recruiting and there are clients and candidates that are a breeze to work with ("the lovely ones") and then there are those that are more difficult to manage ("the annoying ones"). Sometimes I have clients that make unreasonable demands maybe because they don't understand my work or the market. I'm sure Himel, and anyone really who is selling a product, have customers that are like that.
Just to be perfectly clear, I don't think that expecting clean stitching is unreasonable, or that jeo or Carlos have been unreasonable
I do agree that it was sloppy and unnecessary of him to use those words to describe customers in this context. But I prefer to give him a little slack, because I think I can understand what he meant.

Good points

But some parts of this thread still leave me a bad taste, pointing out significant flaws followed by saying you aren't trying to dissuade others from purchasing is double faced no matter how you slice it.

If they wanted to dissuade buyers, the tone would have been different I believe - just my opinion. I think this review is a balancing act to give the potential buyers a clearer picture of what they are getting with Himel. And this to the benefit of all of us. It will clearly not dissuade those who have already in mind of acquiring a jacket, but it will be useful for those who are trying to get a clearer picture of this maker.

Otherwise, agreed, it is very useful to know what to look for in a jacket, the more knowledgeable we get, the better

 

[handymike]

I hope there will be closure soon, and that @jeo will update us if and when there are any new developments.

 

[navetsea]

would @jeo take a contrast stitching or a tonal stitching on the remake

 

[jonbuilder]

Now I am left wonding if the resell value of my Himel Kensington has depreciated as a result of this thread. The only wonky stitching I have noticed is at the end of the cuffs something I notice on my vintage Buco jackets. Although the resale value makes little difference I am not inclined to sell my Kensington, I like the jacket, the fit is spot on and it replaced my J-100 I wore regularly for 15 years. But I purchased my Kensington here on from the classifies and paid considerably less than had I purchased new from Himel so maybe my attitude is not relevant to the OP post

 

[El Marro]

But some parts of this thread still leave me a bad taste, pointing out significant flaws followed by saying you aren't trying to dissuade others from purchasing is double faced no matter how you slice it.

I don’t agree with this and I don’t think it is nice to call other members “double faced”.
I am just as likely to buy him a jacket as I was before reading these recent threads, and to be clear that is not very likely at all. However, I have been impressed by the fact that Dave Himel posted here and explained his POV and most importantly offered a solution. That kind of thing is what makes the difference for me when it comes to who I do business with and how I run my own business for that matter.

 

[JMax]

would @jeo take a contrast stitching or a tonal stitching on the remake

No stitching. Only glue.

 

[willyto]

Now I am left wonding if the resell value of my Himel Kensington has depreciated as a result of this thread. The only wonky stitching I have noticed is at the end of the cuffs something I notice on my vintage Buco jackets. Although the resale value makes little difference I am not inclined to sell my Kensington, I like the jacket, the fit is spot on and it replaced my J-100 I wore regularly for 15 years. But I purchased my Kensington here on from the classifies and paid considerably less than had I purchased new from Himel so maybe my attitude is not relevant to the OP post

It nevers ceases to amaze me how people here see their leather jackets as inmvestments instead of clothes to enjoy wearing.

I couldn't care less if the resale value of my leather jackets is less. It's usually what happens with used clothing and no one really is bothered by it.

I never buy thinking "Oh, nice I will be able to resell this for the same I paid or a bit more to make a profit" otherwise I would never buy a thing.

 

[dannyk]

It nevers ceases to amaze me how people here see their leather jackets as inmvestments instead of clothes to enjoy wearing.

I couldn't care less if the resale value of my leather jackets is less. It's usually what happens with used clothing and no one really is bothered by it.

I never buy thinking "Oh, nice I will be able to resell this for the same I paid or a bit more to make a profit" otherwise I would never buy a thing.

I do and I don’t at the same time. I’ve never looked at them as an investment. But I have thought what if (fill in the blank) doesn’t fit, will I lose a ton of money on this? What if ____ is different than the pictures and I don’t like it? I’ve never once considered buying anything just to flip, or simply to hold onto so in the future it might be worth something. But I have considered the monetary aspects of its value and worth for the future. I just took a chance on a white deerskin jacket I’m waiting on. Never owned a deerskin jacket and never a white leather. But it was only 50 bucks. So I’m not concerned if it doesn’t fit or is hideous. But we are dealing with a lot of high value items here and I’ve certainly considered something’s trade and resale value. But this is getting off the topic of the thread. And
I’m not here to argue with anyone. We all value these things differently.

 

[Monitor]

I do and I don’t at the same time. I’ve never looked at them as an investment. But I have thought what if (fill in the blank) doesn’t fit, will I lose a ton of money on this? What if ____ is different than the pictures and I don’t like it? I’ve never once considered buying anything just to flip, or simply to hold onto so in the future it might be worth something. But I have considered the monetary aspects of its value and worth for the future. I just took a chance on a white deerskin jacket I’m waiting on. Never owned a deerskin jacket and never a white leather. But it was only 50 bucks. So I’m not concerned if it doesn’t fit or is hideous. But we are dealing with a lot of high value items here and I’ve certainly considered something’s trade and resale value. But this is getting off the topic of the thread. And
I’m not here to argue with anyone. We all value these things differently.

Yeah, same. Pricier something is, I automatically start calculating the odds of getting my money back in case it doesn't work or if I find something nicer but in general, I buy every single jacket with an honest intention of wearing & enjoying it.
I think it'd be a different story if I was buying stuff I had a chance to try on but online, I can't ever be sure of what to expect thus I have to do the math with each purchase.

As for flipping things, if I see an opportunity to make really good profit on something, I'll grab the chance. I'm good at this jacket business, I spent loads of time on it, learning, getting better, just like with any other line of work, so why not utilize it into making a bit of a profit if possible. I see no problem in that. I lost a lot of money as well but I think that as long as I come out even, it's all good. Otherwise, I wouldn't be able to sustain this hobby nor would I want to, to be honest.

 

[TG3]

It nevers ceases to amaze me how people here see their leather jackets as inmvestments instead of clothes to enjoy wearing.

I couldn't care less if the resale value of my leather jackets is less. It's usually what happens with used clothing and no one really is bothered by it.

I never buy thinking "Oh, nice I will be able to resell this for the same I paid or a bit more to make a profit" otherwise I would never buy a thing.

+1 to that personally. When I buy something (In particular, expensive lifelong lasting quality clothing) I purchased it because I plan on wearing it forever. But I get it for those members who enjoy the life of selling/trading so they always get to have something different or new. Different Strokes!

 

[jeo]

To be fair, they didn't bring forward the issues to him. In fact they even said they weren't interested in getting a remake.

Whether it was accidental or deliberate Himel sold those jackets and has to live with it. I am glad @jeo and @Carlos840 posted their reviews, learning how to inspect purchases is very helpful for a new member like me.

But some parts of this thread still leave me a bad taste, pointing out significant flaws followed by saying you aren't trying to dissuade others from purchasing is double faced no matter how you slice it.

I did bring forth an issue. I guess you missed that.

I never tried to dissuade anyone. Just wanted to provide an honest account of exactly what happened and an honest review. If doing that in your book counts as trying to dissuade people then...well OK, that's your opinion. Fact of the matter is, I myself bought another jacket from Dave.

 

[jeo]

I hope there will be closure soon, and that @jeo will update us if and when there are any new developments.

Here's an update.

Dave sent the email to Parker accidentally instead of me. Parker forwarded it to me.

I spoke with Dave on the phone. Not going to go into detail. Bottom line, he wants to make it right. Even though I said I didn't want a remake back then and have enjoyed my jacket, after having made this thread I really don't think I can enjoy the jacket anymore. A big part of my enjoyment for this crazy leather jacket hobby is sharing with you wonderful folks and having made this thread, it's almost like the jacket is tainted now. Besides as it was put to me, they want to lock up this Frobisher in a safe at the bottom of Lake Ontario. Dave will be remaking the jacket. I hope that everyone can learn from this thread, myself included.