My Himel Experience (v2)

[Brandrea33]

Here's an update.

Dave sent the email to Parker accidentally instead of me. Parker forwarded it to me.

I spoke with Dave on the phone...Besides as it was put to me, they want to lock up this Frobisher in a safe at the bottom of Lake Ontario...

That sounds exactly like something he would say

I know David personally (shocking to some I know), and I know in his heart of hearts he’d want you to enjoy your jacket.

Have a good weekend.

 

[Superfluous]

Here's an update.

Dave sent the email to Parker accidentally instead of me. Parker forwarded it to me.

I spoke with Dave on the phone. Not going to go into detail. Bottom line, he wants to make it right. Even though I said I didn't want a remake back then and have enjoyed my jacket, after having made this thread I really don't think I can enjoy the jacket anymore. A big part of my enjoyment for this crazy leather jacket hobby is sharing with you wonderful folks and having made this thread, it's almost like the jacket is tainted now. Besides as it was put to me, they want to lock up this Frobisher in a safe at the bottom of Lake Ontario. Dave will be remaking the jacket. I hope that everyone can learn from this thread, myself included.

Thanks for the update @jeo . Thats great news! You are getting a new jacket AND your existing jacket is getting an appropriate, long term home (at the bottom of Lake Ontario). That's what I call a Win-Win.

 

[dudewuttheheck]

Great news @jeo ! Can't wait to see the new one.

 

[TheDonEffect]

I don't get all the posts about dissuading or whatever. Is this forum only to post positive, praise of certain brands? So if I were to come out and make a thread on why I dislike _______, how is that different from why I like ______? Furthermore, again, I don't even think the OPs didn't even post the typical negative Yelp type review, oh I didn't like the way he talked to me, oh this jacket is over hyped, which everyone is entitled to their opinion, but instead they posted here's a review of my jacket, here are photos, and in Jeo's case even went as far as to say hey I still bought another jacket from the guy.

So if I were to order any jacket, and then receive a dud, and I post it here to show others what my experience was, and possibly, educate others on what they're overlooking, will others than post their perfect examples and create a straw man argument about how I'm trying to sabotage a business?

It's one thing to disagree, like hey those stitches are just fine. It's another to create separate arguments, well my jacket is perfect or why are you trying to take away business from them? These are separate, apologists points, and to them I guess this is an acceptable situation because why else then would they raise these points?

And again, context, this is not a $300 made to order to my one off specifications from 5*, this is a $2k+ purchase with the expectations of it being a masterpiece, because the one that's selling it is heralding his products as such. If any of us received that jacket, and did not get the response we were looking for, why would I not be entitled to share my experience, and my opinion?

It sounds like HB came to their senses, and is doing what myself and others have said they should've done, make it right, and get rid of the ba***rd jacket. I hope Carlos got an acceptable solution as well.

 

[Fonzie]

I can sense some thread pruning real soon...


Bartender Comment: I'm afraid so!

Fonzie, my apologies for hijacking your post, but this is a good place to put this and leave a stop on it so you and the other guys who want to carry on with the On Topic discussion can do so without the side-distraction.

The robust on-topic discussion here is one thing; behaving like children quite another. TFL has lots of threads on many different things. No-one has to be or is expected to be interested in them all. If you don't want to discuss the thread topic, there's another thread sure to be out there that will interest you. Move along.

Thanks Mods for bringing this thread back on track and for the job that you do in keeping this place civil and enjoyable.
Congrats @jeo for a positive resolution of your issues, I hope this time around you get the top notch jacket that you deserve.
High fives all around fellow loungers!

 

[TREEMAN]

Thanks Mods for bringing this thread back on track and for the job that you do in keeping this place civil and enjoyable.
Congrats @jeo for a positive resolution of your issues, I hope this time around you get the top notch jacket that you deserve.
High fives all around fellow loungers!

Thanks Fonzie....High five to you too !!

 

[Jägernaut]

Happy for you on getting a remake. I believe if Himel had seen the totality of bad work on that jacket, he would have done something about it back then.

 

[air]

Just wanted to provide an honest account of exactly what happened and an honest review. If doing that in your book counts as trying to dissuade people then...well OK, that's your opinion.

I don't get all the posts about dissuading or whatever. Is this forum only to post positive, praise of certain brands? So if I were to come out and make a thread on why I dislike _______, how is that different from why I like ______? Furthermore, again, I don't even think the OPs didn't even post the typical negative Yelp type review, oh I didn't like the way he talked to me, oh this jacket is over hyped, which everyone is entitled to their opinion, but instead they posted here's a review of my jacket, here are photos, and in Jeo's case even went as far as to say hey I still bought another jacket from the guy.

So if I were to order any jacket, and then receive a dud, and I post it here to show others what my experience was, and possibly, educate others on what they're overlooking, will others than post their perfect examples and create a straw man argument about how I'm trying to sabotage a business?

It's one thing to disagree, like hey those stitches are just fine. It's another to create separate arguments, well my jacket is perfect or why are you trying to take away business from them? These are separate, apologists points, and to them I guess this is an acceptable situation because why else then would they raise these points?

And again, context, this is not a $300 made to order to my one off specifications from 5*, this is a $2k+ purchase with the expectations of it being a masterpiece, because the one that's selling it is heralding his products as such. If any of us received that jacket, and did not get the response we were looking for, why would I not be entitled to share my experience, and my opinion?

It sounds like HB came to their senses, and is doing what myself and others have said they should've done, make it right, and get rid of the ba***rd jacket. I hope Carlos got an acceptable solution as well.

I don't think there is anything wrong with posting a bad review of a manufacturer, much less when it's supported by photographic evidence like this one. On the contrary, I found this review very helpful and hope other users will continue to share their experiences.

What's the point of pretending you are not slamming the manufacturer and don't want a resolution though? Particularly in this case where there is no doubt that the jacket should not have made it through QC in the first place.

 

[jeo]

Slamming the manufacturer is more accurate. To be clear, not for the jacket itself and not even for the fact that it left Himels workshop. Shit happens. It was a slam for the response I was given to the flaw that I showed. That was my big gripe.

That’s not what you said though. You said I was trying to dissuade others from purchasing. That’s incorrect. I have tried my best to be as fair and balanced as I can throughout this entire thread, giving Himel credit where it was due.

One of the main reasons I didn’t bring it up in two years is that I didn’t want to harm Himels reputation and I definitely didn’t want to dissuade anyone from purchasing.

 

[TheDonEffect]

I don't think there is anything wrong with posting a bad review of a manufacturer, much less when it's supported by photographic evidence like this one. On the contrary, I found this review very helpful and hope other users will continue to share their experiences.

What's the point of pretending you are not slamming the manufacturer and don't want a resolution though? Particularly in this case where there is no doubt that the jacket should not have made it through QC in the first place.

Same can be said about what's the point in someone fixating on someone else "pretending you are not slamming the manufacturer...", I don't see the relevance of you fixating and raising this point. Are the jackets not unreasonably flawed? Are their concerns therefore not well supported by photographic evidence? Are their complaints not justified in your eyes? But the integrity of the OP seems to be your cause for concern?

Bottom line, they received messed up jackets, HB didn't make it completely right, they went public, HB gave a, hmm, polarizing response initially but now appears to make it right after they calmed down. What was veiled here that was relevant to this discussion?

To be blunt, I find your misdirection frustrating because in essence we're talking about the OP's character and not the real issue, the messed up expensive jackets, and how HB responded to it. To illustrate a point, let me misdirect your comment now, why do you find the need to veil the fact that you want the conversation to be about the OP's character and not the jacket? I mean, what do you have to gain by revealing that the OP's wanted a free jacket, these sort of comments are akin to politicos doing spin/damage control; are you doing damage control for HB?

 

[jonbuilder]

It nevers ceases to amaze me how people here see their leather jackets as inmvestments instead of clothes to enjoy wearing.

I couldn't care less if the resale value of my leather jackets is less. It's usually what happens with used clothing and no one really is bothered by it.

I never buy thinking "Oh, nice I will be able to resell this for the same I paid or a bit more to make a profit" otherwise I would never buy a thing.

I was jesting as my post implied I will be keeping my Kensington for many years. I was trying to satire the idea that when paying $2500 for a jacket some are more brother with perceived imperfection than when paying $1200. No, I do not buy jackets as investments but I am at a point where I try not to outlay more cash into my collection but balance purchases with sales.

 

[Logician]

 

[TheDonEffect]

View attachment 315745

Coooold blooded.

 

[sweetfights]

Now I am left wonding if the resell value of my Himel Kensington has depreciated as a result of this thread. The only wonky stitching I have noticed is at the end of the cuffs something I notice on my vintage Buco jackets. Although the resale value makes little difference I am not inclined to sell my Kensington, I like the jacket, the fit is spot on and it replaced my J-100 I wore regularly for 15 years. But I purchased my Kensington here on from the classifies and paid considerably less than had I purchased new from Himel so maybe my attitude is not relevant to the OP post

Your Kensington is gorgeous and would still be with me except for the lack of perfect fit I achieved with the remake.
Enjoy.
P.S. I bet you could sell it for the price you
paid easily.

 

[JoeNiblick]

I think it's best to regard his comment about difficult annoying customers as slip of the tongue (or keyboard).

While I’m surprised to hear a vendor use the language, I think most of us, whether the actual difficult and annoying customers, or their friends, are the first to acknowledge this crowd isn’t the easiest to please...

This thread also brings up an important point: There are at least two products being sold when you buy a $2500 jacket: The jacket itself, and the customer service to back it up. Both have a real cost, and for a business to stay open, the price of the product has to cover the total expense (and allow the business owner to earn an income).

These discussions are invaluable for those passionate about jackets (and customer service) to determine if a company is worthy of our hard-earned cash. Thanks to everyone (and TFL) for contributing to the conversation!

 

[air]

Just wanted to say that after having to expose a manufacturer to get a resolution, I think speaking favorably of them is misleading. I doubt OP's motives in doing so.

As @El Marro said below, OP may have very well spoken favorably of Himel out of genuine admiration, and my post was rude. The original post has been edited for clarity and politeness.

 

[jeo]

You think I'm trying to defend Himel?
OP received a jacket with glaring flaws, which he promptly detected. He let Himel's people know about problems with the stitching, and they glossed over the issue with bogus claims of slippery leather.
As you said in a previous comment, we are not talking about a cheap jacket, this is a 2500$ dollar jacket, advertised as a masterpiece of craftsmanship by the manufacturer.
Despite knowing of Himel's practices, OP still speaks of them favorably even now, because he wants a new jacket.
I will obviously speak out when I think a reviewer has spoken favorably of a manufacturer when he knew otherwise.

Hmm...so am I speaking favorably of them or am I slamming them or trying to dissuade people?? Pick one and stick with it bro, you're making yourself look stupid.

 

[ericsanpablo31]

I for one am glad Jeo was able to get a resolution with Himel and am thankful for outlets like the Fedora Lounge where we can disclose satisfaction or dissatisfaction with makers. I wonder if Jeo had never posted here, whether he'd still be offered a remake? Regardless, I think he was just frustrated with the product/customer service and wanted to share that.

Places like this hold makers accountable and that's a good thing right? Makers should have nothing to worry about if they're making good products and giving good customer service, which is what they should be doing anyway at this price point. It's also a good learning experience for them if they're willing to listen (which they may not be willing to do one-on-one; after all, who am I to tell someone with years of leather jacket experience what is right or wrong? But if everyone and their mother can see a flaw, there's no hiding that).

For me, it raises my esteem for Himel, because even though their initial response might not have been the best, they were not prideful enough to just stick with it and not listen - they learned from the experience and seem like they are actively trying to rectify it (hopefully not just in the remake but all future jackets). That is harder than it sounds, especially when someone is criticizing your work which I'm sure they take great pride in. I think some other makers may have been a lot more sensitive. That said, some makers I know would probably have fixed the situation earlier too... maybe they too learned from past experience.

 

[Superfluous]

TOUGH CROWD.

 

[El Marro]

Despite knowing of Himel's practices, OP still speaks of them favorably even now, because he wants a new jacket.
I will obviously speak out when I think a reviewer has spoken favorably of a manufacturer when he knew otherwise.

Or perhaps he speaks of them favorably because he genuinely admires their work and thinks they make great jackets most of the time. Very few things in life are simply black or white and this is certainly an example of that.
Nothing wrong with speaking your mind but you come across as rude and condescending to me.