My Blue Heaven

[Wesslyn]

I just did a bunch of lurking on the HJ facebook page. They have says Wilde did wear an HJ. Also, found this, which apparently came from the HJ archives, which is beginning to interest me as much as the Vatican's... 1970 Poet. Similar to the one I found on ebay last year, with one noticeable difference....

Seems like they're definitely making cool hats. If I had a few hundred bucks laying around, I'd gladly play the guinea pig and get a Raiders and a Clipper. But alas...

 

[Nathaniel Finley]

I just did a bunch of lurking on the HJ facebook page. They have says Wilde did wear an HJ. Also, found this, which apparently came from the HJ archives, which is beginning to interest me as much as the Vatican's... 1970 Poet. Similar to the one I found on ebay last year, with one noticeable difference....
View attachment 84301
Seems like they're definitely making cool hats. If I had a few hundred bucks laying around, I'd gladly play the guinea pig and get a Raiders and a Clipper. But alas...

According to Wikipedia, HJ didn't open until 1889, which is seven years after the photos of Wilde by Sarony, so if Wilde did wear an HJ lid it wasn't the one in the images above. Not to say he didn't wear an HJ, but that hat wasn't one of them, meaning that the style was extant prior to HJ's production of the poet.

Here's an old eBay listing of a vintage HJ poet.

 

[Wesslyn]

According to Wikipedia, HJ didn't open until 1889, which is seven years after the photos of Wilde by Sarony, so if Wilde did wear an HJ lid it wasn't the one in the images above. Not to say he didn't wear an HJ, but that hat wasn't one of them, meaning that the style was extant prior to HJ's production of the poet.

Here's an old eBay listing of a vintage HJ poet.
View attachment 84302

That's the listing I saw as well last year. Very interesting stuff. Surely there's other vintage and/or strange Poets out there in the world. Odd how no one in the lounge seems to have any examples themselves.

 

[Nathaniel Finley]

That's the listing I saw as well last year. Very interesting stuff. Surely there's other vintage and/or strange Poets out there in the world. Odd how no one in the lounge seems to have any examples themselves.

AND hard to find images of any on the web!

 

[Wesslyn]

AND hard to find images of any on the web!

I'd love to know how the long lost blocks were found too, and how they were lost to begin with.
HJ is the most mysterious yet famous hat brand, I think. I'm down the rabbit hole now...

 

[Nathaniel Finley]

I'm down the rabbit hole now...

Lol, me too!

 

[Nathaniel Finley]

Found it! I knew there was a piece of art showing a romantic poet in a big hat. It's Goethe!
If there is one poet - and one image - which could have, for an entire century, associated poets with wide-brimmed, high-crowned fedoras, this is it.

I reckon "the poet" is named for Goethe, and the hat became a stock characterization of poets on the Victorian stage. This is why Whitman wore it, and why Wilde wore it.

That's my theory.

 

[Zombie_61]

Are we certain that Herbert Johnson first named this style "The Poet"? To me, their website is unclear on that matter. It says only, "The 'Poet' had been made by Herbert Johnson since the 1890's..." but that doesn't specify that they invented the style or that they named it...

Good point! Once again the scant history of Herbert Johnson's "Poet" hat is included only as part of their discussion of the "Indiana Jones" hat. The statement, "Our classic oldest hat shape was the Herbert Johnson wide brim fur felt hat called 'The Poet' with its tall crown and this was the style chosen. The 'Poet' had been made by Herbert Johnson since the 1890's and has always been deemed ageless..." seems to casually imply it was Johnson who gave the hat it's name, but it's far from being conclusive--Johnson may have been making that style of hat since the 1890s, but when and how it was named "Poet" is still unclear.

To further muddy the waters, they also state the original "Poet" hat was modified for "Raiders of the Lost Ark", and that they've "...continued to make exactly the same hat still calling it 'The Poet' for fans of both the Indiana Jones movies and the starring actor Harrison Ford." So the modern/current version of the "Poet" is different from the version(s) made prior to 1980.

 

[Bob Roberts]

Good point! Once again the scant history of Herbert Johnson's "Poet" hat is included only as part of their discussion of the "Indiana Jones" hat. The statement, "Our classic oldest hat shape was the Herbert Johnson wide brim fur felt hat called 'The Poet' with its tall crown and this was the style chosen. The 'Poet' had been made by Herbert Johnson since the 1890's and has always been deemed ageless..." seems to casually imply it was Johnson who gave the hat it's name, but it's far from being conclusive--Johnson may have been making that style of hat since the 1890s, but when and how it was named "Poet" is still unclear.

To further muddy the waters, they also state the original "Poet" hat was modified for "Raiders of the Lost Ark", and that they've "...continued to make exactly the same hat still calling it 'The Poet' for fans of both the Indiana Jones movies and the starring actor Harrison Ford." So the modern/current version of the "Poet" is different from the version(s) made prior to 1980.

I like the look of some of the "new" Poets.

 

[RJR]

I like the look of some of the "new" Poets.

They are having a little row over on COW regarding HJ now.

 

[Wesslyn]

It just occurred to me that one of the Dr's from Dr Who wore a Poet. Anyone know what year that was? I'm not much of a Dr Who guy.
But if the Poets were big furry hats until at least 1970, we could maybe narrow down when the more well known incarnation of The Poet came to be.

 

[Nathaniel Finley]

They are having a little row over on COW regarding HJ now.

Got a link by chance, RJR? I've never been on COW.

 

[Nathaniel Finley]

It just occurred to me that one of the Dr's from Dr Who wore a Poet. Anyone know what year that was? I'm not much of a Dr Who guy.
But if the Poets were big furry hats until at least 1970, we could maybe narrow down when the more well known incarnation of The Poet came to be.

I also thought maybe I could find more information about the original "Poet" by searching online discussions of the 4th Doctor's hat, but alas I only found the same superficial type of bla-bla-bla about it that one finds about the Indy version. Nothing of enough historical substance to help understand why it's called "the Poet."

Today I intend to further test my own hypothesis by researching stock characters of the Victorian stage. If anything comes up I'll be sure to share. I don't even know if there was such a thing (I'm thinking of the Rennaisance stage with such well-known stock characters as the harlequin and scaramouche.)

BTW, Stock characters are theatrical roles without individual identity that are a kind of stereotype: the doctor, the lover, the fool, etc. In the Rennaissance, they were always dressed in a similar manner and performed a specific function in the play, often as the villain. I'm wondering if the Victorian theater had anything similar out of which "the Poet" hat could have developed. Just a hypothesis.

 

[Nathaniel Finley]

I couldn't find evidence to support my original theory of the poet hat as a theatrical prop, but I did come to other conclusions about the history of this hat. I created a whole new thread called "Histories of hat styles" if anyone is interested (and if the administrators don't send my comments back to this thread, which would also be fine).

Cheers!

 

[RJR]

Got a link by chance, RJR? I've never been on COW.

Google-indygear.com/cow/

 

[mayserwegener]

It might be related to the Bohemians of the early 20th century who wore Austrian Velour Hats.

Wyndham Lewis wearing a black Austrian Velour in this manner.

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/floppy-fedora-from-the-1920s.62346/#post-1406258

Here is James Joyce is an Austrian Velour (1916).

 

[mayserwegener]

Found it! I knew there was a piece of art showing a romantic poet in a big hat. It's Goethe!
If there is one poet - and one image - which could have, for an entire century, associated poets with wide-brimmed, high-crowned fedoras, this is it.

I reckon "the poet" is named for Goethe, and the hat became a stock characterization of poets on the Victorian stage. This is why Whitman wore it, and why Wilde wore it.

That's my theory.
View attachment 84303

Goethe wore this hat while traveling through Italy (portrait location). From what I can remember he purchased it specifically for travel through Italy. The hat (in the painting) is mentioned in his book "Italian Journey".

 

[Nathaniel Finley]

Goethe wore this hat while traveling through Italy (portrait location). From what I can remember he purchased it specifically for travel through Italy. The hat (in the painting) is mentioned in his book "Italian Journey".

Yes, it was apparently not unique for him to wear it as it was popular among aristocrats on the Grand Tour. What was unique was to allow himself to be shown in it in a painting. The classical period, which ends with Goethe, mostly painted literary figures in wigs.

 

[Nathaniel Finley]

It might be related to the Bohemians of the early 20th century who wore Austrian Velour Hats.

Wyndham Lewis wearing a black Austrian Velour in this manner.

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/floppy-fedora-from-the-1920s.62346/#post-1406258

Here is James Joyce is an Austrian Velour (1916).

Thank you for the tip on the Velour. It's interesting how much that hat resembles the Indiana Jones Poet. I don't have any idea what impact men's fashion from the German-speaking world had on England in the 1890s. Clearly France was a major influence on the Aesthetic Movement.

 

[mayserwegener]

Yes, it was apparently not unique for him to wear it as it was popular among aristocrats on the Grand Tour. What was unique was to allow himself to be shown in it in a painting. The classical period, which ends with Goethe, mostly painted literary figures in wigs.

The man (Tischbein) that painted the portrait was Goethe's close friend (and art mentor). Goethe purposely kept a very low profile during his time in Italy (he wanted to learn to draw/paint and study the visual arts). The painting of this portrait is mentioned in the "Italian Journey".