Musician's hats

[Frunobulax]

that won't ever happen

it may be what sells most ... but then again it almost always has ...

but there will always be true artists ... we just may have to dig a little deeper to find them because the entire industry is different

back in the day you got a 4 or 5 album deal and the company let you see out your contract ... sometimes a group or artist wouldn't reach anyone until there 5th album

today you are lucky if you get past one single on a deal

some of the greatest artists that have ever been would never be heard of if they came out today for that very reason

the true artists will always be around ... just in a more grass roots way and being spread by word of mouth and via the internet and not the radio and large promotion like back in the day

Agreed. Support live local music in your area.

Go see a band!

 

[moontheloon]

Agreed. Support live local music in your area.

Go see a band!

damn right Jim

and thank you !!

 

[hatophile]

I hope the tradition of singer-songwriter will never be replaced with these " Disney" people.

 

[Frunobulax]

damn right Jim

and thank you !!

It's a passion of mine.

 

[Hurricane Jack]

that won't ever happen

it may be what sells most ... but then again it almost always has ...

but there will always be true artists ... we just may have to dig a little deeper to find them because the entire industry is different

back in the day you got a 4 or 5 album deal and the company let you see out your contract ... sometimes a group or artist wouldn't reach anyone until there 5th album

today you are lucky if you get past one single on a deal

some of the greatest artists that have ever been would never be heard of if they came out today for that very reason

the true artists will always be around ... just in a more grass roots way and being spread by word of mouth and via the internet and not the radio and large promotion like back in the day

That's my perception of a lot of pop music already. Pop music groups today were never a garage band nor rarely a group of musicians who came together naturally thru their talent. They were put together by a studio to sell products.

Rhyming dictionaries & software make it much easier to write lyrics today. That's why most of it doesn't have any substance to the song lyrics. It's all about the beat & the dance.

Scores of original music used to be written for movies & movie soundtracks could be purchased later. Today cheap rental market movies are made as a venue for the sole purpose of selling music, DVD's & other products. The movie itself doesn't have to make much of a profit. Movies that do make it to theaters frequently turn into franchises in order to sell those same products for as long as possible. All this helps promote the "studio stars" to keep the whole thing going. And since the studio star rarely has any talent, once the franchise runs it's course & dies usually so does the career of the star. Some try to hang around but most have been well paid & soon just fade away.

Rant over!

 

[Bob Roberts]

Agreed. Support live local music in your area.

Go see a band!

And buy their merch.

 

[moontheloon]

That's my perception of a lot of pop music already. Pop music groups today were never a garage band nor rarely a group of musicians who came together naturally thru their talent. They were put together by a studio to sell products.

Rhyming dictionaries & software make it much easier to write lyrics today. That's why most of it doesn't have any substance to the song lyrics. It's all about the beat & the dance.

Scores of original music used to be written for movies & movie soundtracks could be purchased later. Today cheap rental market movies are made as a venue for the sole purpose of selling music, DVD's & other products. The movie itself doesn't have to make much of a profit. Movies that do make it to theaters frequently turn into franchises in order to sell those same products for as long as possible. All this helps promote the "studio stars" to keep the whole thing going. And since the studio star rarely has any talent, once the franchise runs it's course & dies usually so does the career of the star. Some try to hang around but most have been well paid & soon just fade away.

Rant over!

my man ... you must not understand how Motown was run then

they were strictly about writing hits and nothing else ... they would record hundreds of songs then have a group meeting and vote on which songs the teen demographic would buy up like hot cakes and throw the rest away

all those songs buy the way recorded by hired studio musicians ... an all those groups ... Temptation .. whoever... once one guy left ... boom!... fill that void with the next guy

yeah they were all in the same room recording those songs in pretty much a single take because they had to ... they were going to 2 track or maybe 4 track later

this stuff has been going on since the beginning of time ... it is nothing new

we all just consider the old stuff good because it is the old stuff and we want the young kids to get off our lawn

believe me if Berry Gordy had Pro-Tools and access to digital enhancements he would have used it

hell ... hundreds of groups that get respect for being some of the best bands ever didn't even play on their own records

the Beach Boys for example ... you know that album that just about everyone in the world considers the best rock album ever ... Pet Sounds ?

yeah ... not one of the beach boys plays an instrument on that album ...

not Dennis Wilson on drums ... nope .. thats Hal Blaine

not Carl Wilson on Guitar ... nope ... thats Tommy Tedesco

not Brian Wilson on bass ... nope .. thats Carol Kaye

etc etc

there were just as many bogus situations back in the day as today ... and there are just as many legit situations today as back then

you may not like some of it ... but some of todays "pop" music is legit music played by legit players and written by legit writers


and movie scores?... movie scores are better now than they have ever been ... the movies may not be .. .but the scores are no longer popular songs of the day put to motion picture..
these composers are .... just as they did in the golden age ... writing music specifically for the film

I work in the movie score field ... I'm working on one right now as a matter of fact ... this is my wheelhouse

check out the score to a movie called Birdman .... it is basically done by one guy on the spot ... jazz drummer Antonio Sanchez
he sat in a room surrounded by percussion with the movie paying on a big screen and scored it on the spot ... improv ... that's some shit


this type of thing happens all the time ...

so yeah ...

 

[Hurricane Jack]

my man ... you must not understand how Motown was run then

they were strictly about writing hits and nothing else ... they would record hundreds of songs then have a group meeting and vote on which songs the teen demographic would buy up like hot cakes and throw the rest away

all those songs buy the way recorded by hired studio musicians ... an all those groups ... Temptation .. whoever... once one guy left ... boom!... fill that void with the next guy

yeah they were all in the same room recording those songs in pretty much a single take because they had to ... they were going to 2 track or maybe 4 track later

this stuff has been going on since the beginning of time ... it is nothing new

we all just consider the old stuff good because it is the old stuff and we want the young kids to get off our lawn

believe me if Berry Gordy had Pro-Tools and access to digital enhancements he would have used it

hell ... hundreds of groups that get respect for being some of the best bands ever didn't even play on their own records

the Beach Boys for example ... you know that album that just about everyone in the world considers the best rock album ever ... Pet Sounds ?

yeah ... not one of the beach boys plays an instrument on that album ...

not Dennis Wilson on drums ... nope .. thats Hal Blaine

not Carl Wilson on Guitar ... nope ... thats Tommy Tedesco

not Brian Wilson on bass ... nope .. thats Carol Kaye

etc etc

there were just as many bogus situations back in the day as today ... and there are just as many legit situations today as back then

you may not like some of it ... but some of todays "pop" music is legit music played by legit players and written by legit writers


and movie scores?... movie scores are better now than they have ever been ... the movies may not be .. .but the scores are no longer popular songs of the day put to motion picture..
these composers are writing music specifically for the film

I work in the movie score field ... I'm working on one right now as a matter of fact ... this is my wheelhouse

check out the score to a movie called Birdman .... it is basically done by one guy on the spot ... jazz drummer Antonio Sanchez
he sat in a room surrounded by percussion with the movie paying on a big screen and scored it on the spot ... improv ... that's some shit


this type of thing happens all the time ...

so yeah ...

Yes I saw that movie also; The Wrecking Crew I think it was. That's not what I'm talking about nor is Gordy or Motown.

But that's okay. I'll drop it.

 

[BobHufford]

not Carl Wilson on Guitar ... nope ... thats Tommy Tedesco

Didn't Glen Campbell play on that album as well?

 

[moontheloon]

Didn't Glen Campbell play on that album as well?

he was part of that crew ... not sure if he played on that record

never saw the movie ... not interested in hearing Hal Blaine recreate and fabricate history

 

[moontheloon]

that movie was bogus nonsense ... as Carol states here

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?id=168440386566810&story_fbid=281253788618802

 

[Bob Roberts]

Every science has its formula. Crafting many pop "hit" records is/was formulamatic. The art and craft of successful hit song writing/recording/arranging is a science in the true sense of the word. One man's opinion...

 

[tropicalbob]

Let's not forget that while there was the Motown Sound, there was also the Memphis Sound: in fact, I can remember fistfights in my high school between partisans. Also, I've seen some articles on the Wrecking Crew recently that I believe were overstated. In one, the author included The Byrds as an example of a group that didn't play on their own records: kind of hard to believe when you consider that Roger McGuinn accompanied The Limelighters when he was a mere seventeen years old and later was Bobby Darin's guitarist on some of his biggest hits, that Chris Hillman was a member of The Dillards (seen on The Andy Griffith Show as The Darlings), and that the rest were all professional musicians before joining the band. There was some truth in the claims, but the authors I read seemed to be getting carried away with their "debunking."

 

[moontheloon]

Let's not forget that while there was the Motown Sound, there was also the Memphis Sound: in fact, I can remember fistfights in my high school between partisans. Also, I've seen some articles on the Wrecking Crew recently that I believe were overstated. In one, the author included The Byrds as an example of a group that didn't play on their own records: kind of hard to believe when you consider that Roger McGuinn accompanied The Limelighters when he was a mere seventeen years old and later was Bobby Darin's guitarist on some of his biggest hits, that Chris Hillman was a member of The Dillards (seen on The Andy Griffith Show as The Darlings), and that the rest were all professional musicians before joining the band. There was some truth in the claims, but the authors I read seemed to be getting carried away with their "debunking."

those guys did play on some Byrds records
Mr. Tamborine man for example ... McGuinn played on that along with the Hal Blaine and those guys

back then it wasn't about who could play and who couldn't as much as it was who can nail a studio take that pleased the producer in the least amount of time ... and Blaine , Knechtel , and Russell and those guys were seasoned studio musicians.

there is a reason why they were hired by recording studios to produce hits ... they took direction, could all read charts, were generally sober at all times, were all business, and could nail tracks in one take ...

being a studio musician is completely different than being a performing live musician ...

that is why the Funk Brothers exist... it is why there was a Wrecking Crew ...it is why Stacks had Booker T and the MGs... it is why there was the Memphis Boys... it is why there was the Muscle Shoals sound with Roger Hawkins, David Hood, and Spooner Oldham and those guys

efficient studio musicians are a different breed and become a valuable commodity especially when deadlines and finances are tight

I make a lot of my living as a studio musician ... a lot more than playing live these days ...
and I get a lot of work because I can be a chameleon and adapt to many sounds and styles, I can read charts, I can play to a click extremely efficiently, I can take direction without my artistic pride getting in the way , and I can achieve pretty much any sound on the drum kit that is required ...

I've recorded "ghost" drums on many records where the actual drummer of the band who's album I was recording was sitting right in the control room listening

awkward without a doubt ... but that is the way of the business and always has been

producers want efficiency and they want to work with musicians they trust to get basic track laid quickly so the artist.... be it a vocal to whatever...can paint over the top

 

[Bob Roberts]

It's all good. Isn't it? The song. The lyric. The voice. The arrangement. The artist. The producer. The musicians. The studio and sound engineer. All practicing their art and craft.

 

[Frunobulax]

those guys did play on some Byrds records
Mr. Tamborine man for example ... McGuinn played on that along with the Hal Blaine and those guys

back then it wasn't about who could play and who couldn't as much as it was who can nail a studio take that pleased the producer in the least amount of time ... and Blaine , Knechtel , and Russell and those guys were seasoned studio musicians.

there is a reason why they were hired by recording studios to produce hits ... they took direction, could all read charts, were generally sober at all times, were all business, and could nail tracks in one take ...

being a studio musician is completely different than being a performing live musician ...

that is why the Funk Brothers exist... it is why there was a Wrecking Crew ...it is why Stacks had Booker T and the MGs... it is why there was the Memphis Boys... it is why there was the Muscle Shoals sound with Roger Hawkins, David Hood, and Spooner Oldham and those guys

efficient studio musicians are a different breed and become a valuable commodity especially when deadlines and finances are tight

I make a lot of my living as a studio musician ... a lot more than playing live these days ...
and I get a lot of work because I can be a chameleon and adapt to many sounds and styles, I can read charts, I can play to a click extremely efficiently, I can take direction without my artistic pride getting in the way , and I can achieve pretty much any sound on the drum kit that is required ...

I've recorded "ghost" drums on many records where the actual drummer of the band who's album I was recording was sitting right in the control room listening

awkward without a doubt ... but that is the way of the business and always has been

producers want efficiency and they want to work with musicians they trust to get basic track laid quickly so the artist.... be it a vocal to whatever...can paint over the top

I sorta know all this stuff, but thanks for the insight and first-hand observations. Also, good on ya for being good at your job. I hope someday in the future they'll be talking about how it was really you on those hit records.

 

[moontheloon]

I sorta know all this stuff, but thanks for the insight and first-hand observations. Also, good on ya for being good at your job. I hope someday in the future they'll be talking about how it was really you on those hit records.

ha!

thanks man ... I'll take it any way I can get it

after lugging gear around from gig to gig and from studio to studio for the past nearly 25 years it might be nice to finally get a little hair tussle

it's an unforgiving profession ... but we do it for the love

pretty sure Bowlerman knows a thing or two about what I'm talking about

 

[Bob Roberts]

Let's not forget that while there was the Motown Sound, there was also the Memphis Sound: in fact, I can remember fistfights in my high school between partisans. Also, I've seen some articles on the Wrecking Crew recently that I believe were overstated. In one, the author included The Byrds as an example of a group that didn't play on their own records: kind of hard to believe when you consider that Roger McGuinn accompanied The Limelighters when he was a mere seventeen years old and later was Bobby Darin's guitarist on some of his biggest hits, that Chris Hillman was a member of The Dillards (seen on The Andy Griffith Show as The Darlings), and that the rest were all professional musicians before joining the band. There was some truth in the claims, but the authors I read seemed to be getting carried away with their "debunking."

Stax.

 

[tropicalbob]

I can remember when The Monkees tv show first aired and they took a lot of flak from the music critics. Frank Zappa responded by saying that they were the best-produced band in the country. I thought about the implications of that and realized there were a lot of things I didn't know. Still, I'd far prefer to hear an actual band working together in as simple a production as possible, warts and all. Much of the San Francisco acid sound of the '60's was a reaction to L.A. slickness, as was the punk music of the '70's a reaction to the bloated sound of a lot of the rock bands of the time. The first time I heard the Ramones and The Modern Lovers was like a cool breeze.

 

[moontheloon]

I can remember when The Monkees tv show first aired and they took a lot of flak from the music critics. Frank Zappa responded by saying that they were the best-produced band in the country. I thought about the implications of that and realized there were a lot of things I didn't know. Still, I'd far prefer to hear an actual band working together in as simple a production as possible, warts and all. Much of the San Francisco acid sound of the '60's was a reaction to L.A. slickness, as was the punk music of the '70's a reaction to the bloated sound of a lot of the rock bands of the time. The first time I heard the Ramones and The Modern Lovers was like a cool breeze.

I agree ... I love the sound of an actual band over anything ... flubs and all ... the truth

but that is not always what we get

that's why I love those old Who records ... most of the time aside from Entwistle the performance is very loose and sometimes quite bad ... but sooooo good !!!

if you can't tell from my screen name and sig .. Keith Moon is one of my favorite people to ever exits ... he sure had his faults ... musically and otherwise

one of my favorite bands in the word is the Police ... all their records are like that ... the truth