Modern Male Identity Crisis

[ButteMT61]

"Get thee to a nunnery: why wouldst thou be a breeder of sinners?" - Hamlet, Act 3, Scene 1

Well, given all the news coming out about Penn State (State College, PA where I grew up, etc.) maybe you're on to something :eeek:

 

[Marc Chevalier]

.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

My grandmother was '16 and pregnant' in 1952. She'd been married a year, though!

When I was in high school there was only one teen mother It was such an unusual occurrence back then that she was something of a celebrity on campus. Though I do remember she was a very nice girl and was very devoted to her baby. That kid must be 29 or 30 by now.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

My local high school has had a day care for years. It is for vocational classes though. When I graduated in 01 we had one girl with a 2 or 3 year old. She was a very devout mother, she just made a mistake.

 

[Miss Golightly]

The factor missing in what I said was that in those days, families lived closer together so a woman in that situation would have a brother, father or other relative to intervene. They could also go to their family to get away. Families are not so close today as they were back then.
It is very hard now to tell who did what and courts are even further divorced from the situation. As we move further away from the functional nuclear family, solutions rely more on the letter of the law rather than what the situation actually is.:eusa_doh:

One of my mother's friends decided to sort out her domestic violence problem herself. She married a man who seemed very nice by all accounts however a couple of months into the marriage he went out and got drunk, came home and gave her a few slaps (probably felt he could get away with it too), so anyway he went off up to bed to sleep it off and a while later his wife went upstairs to him and smashed him over the head with a ketchup bottle - well the ketchup and blood was splashed all over the wall and he woke up with some start. She looked at him square and said "If you ever try that again I won't get you when you are awake but I'll get you when you are asleep".

He never laid a finger on her again and they went on to be very happily married for years.

 

[Edward]

A big fan of venom, are you.......

Not at all, although occasionally people characterise as "venom" opinion or fact which makes them uncomfortable. I don't know you personally, so I don't know if you fall into this.

I always laugh when I hear guys say they hate the term "man up". Being a man has nothing to do with kicking other guy's a**es, or being tough, per se. It's about taking care of your ****! Be it your job, your family, your friends, your neighbors. It's a simple premise really. I know a man when I see him. And yes, I consider myself one.

Unfortunately we do live in a time where the overriding notion of being "manly" does primarily revolve around some pretty idiotic behaviour in the vein of being aggressive, treating women appallingly (whether by condescension or otherwise), and so on. That is, alas, primarily the way the term is used nowadays. In another place I have even been labelled "unmanly" because I do not approve of unnecessary aggression, because I would choose not to attempt to take the life of a burglar for the price of a television set, and because I believe pornography does, for the most part, encourage misogyny. [huh]

Not only are you gender bashing but you threw the race card in as well. Others are speaking of their personal experience and are not extrapolating such to include a large segment of society. .

I believe you are misreading the statement you quote. The statement does not ascribe those beliefs to all men, white or otherwise. It simply expresses the poster's view that those who complain about the advancements of women and the changing role of women in society are typically really complaining that "sad white men" are no longer the "king of the jungle". For what it may be worth, with perhaps one or two exceptions, in my own experience all those I have encountered who have bemoaned the evils of the modern world in which women don't know their place any longer have been white, Christian (by culture at least, if not by practice) males - in other words, the very group of people who were very much king of the hill back in the thirties. There are those within that demographic who are very vocal indeed about their desire to retreat to an earlier time when women and such knew their place. Fortunately, by and large most of us white, Christian (even those of us who are practising ) males do not subscribe to such ideology.

 

[Feraud]

My local high school has had a day care for years. It is for vocational classes though. When I graduated in 01 we had one girl with a 2 or 3 year old. She was a very devout mother, she just made a mistake.

Let's not forget the frequently overlooked young men involved in such mistakes.

 

[scottyrocks]

Unfortunately we do live in a time where the overriding notion of being "manly" does primarily revolve around some pretty idiotic behaviour in the vein of being aggressive, treating women appallingly (whether by condescension or otherwise), and so on. That is, alas, primarily the way the term is used nowadays. In another place I have even been labelled "unmanly" because I do not approve of unnecessary aggression, because I would choose not to attempt to take the life of a burglar for the price of a television set, and because I believe pornography does, for the most part, encourage misogyny.

I think it's always been this way, more or less. Most of us have heard stories from the past, heck, it's been celebrated in film a thousand times, of men who behave in aggressive ways where some of us would look at them and think that there us definitely a better, non-aggressive way to handle 99% of the situations we are in.

Different segments of society have their own ideas of what a 'manly' man is. Now please remember that I am generalizing here. Working class/blue collar real men are tough, no-nonsense guys, similar to what you have described above. They look at anyone who doesn't leak testosterone as unmanly. White collar and above have more of a tendency to not behave in that fashion, although I am sure that there are men who wish they did, or had the oonkas to do so. These men are probably somehat ashamed of themselves because of that very reason. It takes a real man, in my humble opinion, to just live his life doing everything he can for those who are important to him, without displaying neanderthalic tendencies on a regular basis. Men can and do go through phases during their lifetimes, hopefull in an upward fashion.

 

[Edward]

I think it's always been this way, more or less. Most of us have heard stories from the past, heck, it's been celebrated in film a thousand times, of men who behave in aggressive ways where some of us would look at them and think that there us definitely a better, non-aggressive way to handle 99% of the situations we are in.

Different segments of society have their own ideas of what a 'manly' man is. Now please remember that I am generalizing here. Working class/blue collar real men are tough, no-nonsense guys, similar to what you have described above. They look at anyone who doesn't leak testosterone as unmanly. White collar and above have more of a tendency to not behave in that fashion, although I am sure that there are men who wish they did, or had the oonkas to do so. These men are probably somehat ashamed of themselves because of that very reason. It takes a real man, in my humble opinion, to just live his life doing everything he can for those who are important to him, without displaying neanderthalic tendencies on a regular basis. Men can and do go through phases during their lifetimes, hopefull in an upward fashion.

By and large, I think you're about right.

 

[Atticus Finch]

One of my mother's friends decided to sort out her domestic violence problem herself. She married a man who seemed very nice by all accounts however a couple of months into the marriage he went out and got drunk, came home and gave her a few slaps (probably felt he could get away with it too), so anyway he went off up to bed to sleep it off and a while later his wife went upstairs to him and smashed him over the head with a ketchup bottle - well the ketchup and blood was splashed all over the wall and he woke up with some start. She looked at him square and said "If you ever try that again I won't get you when you are awake but I'll get you when you are asleep".

He never laid a finger on her again and they went on to be very happily married for years.

I try to avoid telling war stories here on the forum...at least recent ones...but I just prosecuted a woman for "sorting out her domestic problems, herself".

Her live-in boyfriend was unemployed and refused to seek work. Instead, he slept all day and stayed drunk and high all night, keeping her awake so that she was having difficulties at her job. One day, he was asleep at four in the afternoon, having failed (again) to mow the grass or clean the house or look for work. I guess it was the last straw. The woman marched into the kitchen and set a 6-quart pot of water on the stove. When it reached a rolling boil, she took the pot into the bedroom and dumped it onto her sleeping boyfriend's crotch. He spent the next six weeks at the burn center in Chapel Hill.

Of course, she went to jail...but, remarkably, they are still communicating and I understand they plan to resume their relationship as soon she's able. I guess, at times, love really can be painful.

AF

 

[scottyrocks]

^^Hmm, poster children for 'dysfunctional relationships.'

 

[hatophile]

Then there's always the Lorena Bobbitt approach.

 

[Feraud]

Of course, she went to jail...but, remarkably, they are still communicating and I understand they plan to resume their relationship as soon she's able. I guess, at times, love really can be painful.

AF

In your experience do you find couples frequently "kiss and make up" after dragging their relationship troubles through the justice system?

 

[Gene]

How about we here devise a manifesto on what "being a man" is, so we can stop bitching and come up with general guidelines on how to really be a man. I'll add a few points...

-Treat women with respect and reverence.
-Maintain an appearance of dignity.
-Take responsibility for all your actions.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I don't think "reverence" is quite as important as "respect." One is revered by their dog, but respected by their cat. And, hopefully, by their husband.

 

[Miss Golightly]

I try to avoid telling war stories here on the forum...at least recent ones...but I just prosecuted a woman for "sorting out her domestic problems, herself".

Her live-in boyfriend was unemployed and refused to seek work. Instead, he slept all day and stayed drunk and high all night, keeping her awake so that she was having difficulties at her job. One day, he was asleep at four in the afternoon, having failed (again) to mow the grass or clean the house or look for work. I guess it was the last straw. The woman marched into the kitchen and set a 6-quart pot of water on the stove. When it reached a rolling boil, she took the pot into the bedroom and dumped it onto her sleeping boyfriend's crotch. He spent the next six weeks at the burn center in Chapel Hill.

Of course, she went to jail...but, remarkably, they are still communicating and I understand they plan to resume their relationship as soon she's able. I guess, at times, love really can be painful.

AF

To quote my namesake "I must say, the mind reels!".

I can only hope that they don't decide to bring any children into this toxic mess of a relationship.......

 

[Undertow]

...but I just prosecuted a woman for "sorting out her domestic problems, herself"...

I really hate to hear these things. That's very sad for both involved. That boy needs to grow up and be a man. That woman, although seemingly frayed beyond sense, needs to seek counseling and a family-practice lawyer.

Violence is not an answer in this case.

 

[Atticus Finch]

In your experience do you find couples frequently "kiss and make up" after dragging their relationship troubles through the justice system?

Me: "Ms Smith, I've reviewed the file in your case. The officer writes that, last Monday night, your (significant other) slapped you, ripped your blouse off of you, held a knife to your throat and then dumped all your clothes onto the bedroom floor. Then the officer writes that your (significant other) urinated on your clothes."

Her: "Yes...that's right."

Me: "Well, I couldn't help but notice that you and your (significant other) were sitting together in court this morning...and that you were holding hands."

Her: "Yes. He's changed. He's quit drinking and we're in counseling now and I think we're gonna be OK. I want you to dismiss his charges….please."

Me: "But the file says that we dismissed serious assault charges on him just six months ago...and you were the victim then, too."

Her: "Yes. I know. But…look…I don't have a job and me and the kids...well...we've got no where else to go and...well...he's not THAT bad of a man…when he’s sober. Can you please just dismiss the charges and let us go home? He needs to work and we need the money."

AF

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

^^
:eusa_doh:

 

[LizzieMaine]

Sometimes the hardest reality a woman has to face is that the man she's with *isn't* reformable. Some people aren't. Sometimes a man is a lost soul who just needs help and understanding -- but sometimes a man is just a lazy, shiftless, good-for-nothing bum. And there comes a time when you have to understand the difference.