Modern custom vs Vintage

[NonEntity]

I've really enjoyed the thoughtful and informed comments so far; keep 'em coming.

Now it's my turn, and, uncharacteristically, I'll be brief.

The felt from which the magnum caliber vintage hats such as Cavanagh and Borsalino were made is unquestionably superior to today's best felt in custom-made lids. Other materials--sweat band, lining, ribbon--are equivalent, as is overall quality of construction, which is to say, outstanding.

So why don't I have a single vintage hat? Simple: I'm a picky sombitch who's never found one in the style, condition, and size that's right.

Which brings us back to Art, Optimo, et al and their exquisite modern day custom hats.

 

[pgoat]

I've never owned a vintage older than mid-50s or so. My Art Fawcetts are easily nicer than those, with a better fit to boot. But the vintage buys are fun, so long as you know what you are looking for and set a spending limit.

 

[pgoat]

I am glad this has started such a great discussion. Thanks for everyone's thoughts. I was leaning towards getting a custom hat, and the replies here helped me decide that it's the direction I want to go.

Art has been contacted

you won't be disappointed. It's lot of hat for the money, and the conformer helps you get a great fit.

 

[Viper Man]

...You would basically have to do a limited edition run of them, perhaps that was already subscribed/sold so you would know what size felts you would need.

This is a great idea. I have seen this work well with music instrument manufacturers. For example, I believe Lakland basses made a couple of limited edition runs for a bulletin board community like this. They required that anyone interested pony up a non-refundable deposit (half?) and the first 10 people to do so, got to decide all of the details of the model in question. Lakland made "x" number of basses of which "y" number were already spoken for through the board. The remaining instruments were sold off very quickly once the word was out.

Maybe Art would be interested in making "limited edition" FL fedoras with a felted edge for a project such as this?

 

[Brad Bowers]

Maybe Art would be interested in making "limited edition" FL fedoras with a felted edge for a project such as this?

He'd be interested, all right, as are many of us, but it's not realistically going to happen. We've talked to them 'til we're blue in the face, but they won't do it for any amount of money. HATCO, as well, won't make Cavanagh Edges again, even though their crew was interested in it. I got that word straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak. Management all around the world has put the kibosh on it, so unless a modern cost/benefit analysis is done to show that it would be profitable, they won't even consider the idea. I've got an idea that would take about half the work out of it for the felter and place said work in the hands of the hatter, but I don't think that would be enough, either. Today's technology could easily find an answer, but considering hat technology has not really been improved much over the last 100 years, I doubt anyone wants to throw money at it.

I'm forever the optimist, though, and will continue to do everything I can to bring them back. (Sounds like a campaign promise!:eusa_doh: )

Brad

 

[Art Fawcett]

Maybe Art would be interested in making "limited edition" FL fedoras with a felted edge for a project such as this?

I would absolutely LOVE to Viperman, but even as recently as last week the subject came up with my felter (OK, I brought it up) because they had created some prototypes for Brad ( here on the Lounge) and Brad was kind enough to send them to me for study. Included are 3 steps in the process . It's pretty interesting to see and when I asked ( for the umpteenth time) again if they would consider doing a batch, the answer came back "No way, not for ANY price" It's a felting art that has fallen out of the standard knowledge base and only a handfull of people are even remotely qualified, with them not having done it for decades. In short, the skill level just isn't there and to bring the talent up to speed would be almost insurmountable.

Like you, I wish we had the option.

 

[Art Fawcett]

cool, we were answering at the same time Brad!!!

 

[Brad Bowers]

Just call us the Cav Crew!

Brad

 

[Art Fawcett]

Maybe if we keep hammering in tandem we can get them to try..granted, a BIG maybe but...who knows, stranger things have happened

 

[surely]

Am I right in thinking that an over or under welt that is stitched is still done? That is close to, though perhaps not as cool, as a fully welted brim.

 

[Art Fawcett]

Yup Surely, both are still done by the hatter. the key with the Cav is that it's done during the felting process and when finished, no stitching.

 

[surely]

Right, well I have a Stetson Flagship, which has a luxurious feel & look to it, that has an overwelt with three lines of stitching, and looks as nice in its own way imnsh* as other hats I have with felted edges.

*imnsho: in my not so humble opinion. .

 

[Viper Man]

OK, so the felted edge isn't possible. That aside, what about the limited edition concept? Has anything like that ever been done at FL?

 

[AlanC]

Since we're already off topic, what about European felters? I know Marc Kitter of Adventurbilt sources his beaver felts somewhere in Europe. I wonder if there would be more of a possibility there. But y'all probably already thought of that.

You'd think there might be interest on the part of domestic felters simply for the love of the craft.

Does anyone know when the last time a Cav edge was offered domestically?

 

[AlanC]

OK, so the felted edge isn't possible. That aside, what about the limited edition concept? Has anything like that ever been done at FL?

Yeah, I'm afraid so. We had the idea floated last year or so, and while there was a lot of interest in the concept actually deciding on the features and such was a big issue. At the time there was a very well-intentioned third party intermediary who was proposing it, but the powers that be were uncomfortable with that process.

I think perhaps under the right circumstances it could possibly work, but all the i's would need to be dotted and the t's crossed. It would need to a project actually proposed directly by the vendor and would need to be worked out with MK directly, I would think.

 

[univibe88]

I also collect pocket knives and a couple of forums do a "forum knife" every year. I really think the concept would work well here. The band could be embossed with The Fedora Lounge logo and say something like "2008 Forum Edition."

If a vendor were to offer this up, I think that hatter would decide on the details (color, crown height, etc) and just offer it up - take it or leave it. There would be no way to poll the members and try to make something to the consensus. The group would never agree.

 

[Brad Bowers]

Since we're already off topic, what about European felters? I know Marc Kitter of Adventurbilt sources his beaver felts somewhere in Europe. I wonder if there would be more of a possibility there. But y'all probably already thought of that.?

I've asked Marc, but he declined to ask his felter since that wasn't his interest. His felter has been accomodating for him, though. The best possibility would be China [shudder], but I think all you'd get is a crappy hat with a felted edge, and the thought of bringing in yet another Chinese import bothers me a lot.

You'd think there might be interest on the part of domestic felters simply for the love of the craft.?

This goes back to what I said earlier. From my discussions with Winchester and HATCO, there appears to be an interest on the part of the employees that actually do the felting, and probably for the love of the craft, but the stonewalling is coming from management since it would not be profitable (by their thinking). And, as Art said, the people that actually made the edges back then are mostly gone from the industry, which makes for a huge learning curve.

Does anyone know when the last time a Cav edge was offered domestically?

No, but I'm trying to narrow it down, and may have some information at a later date. My current thinking is that production of the edge on Hat Corp. brands ceased with the closing of their CT factory in 1972. That's only supposition on my part, however, is subject to revision. I'm guessing production probably lasted later in the 1970s with Stetson et al, since the Danbury factory that supplied the felt closed around '84 or '86, or so, I think.

Brad

 

[Brad Bowers]

Not off topic at all

Since we're already off topic...

I meant to add that this is not off topic, since this is a very BIG difference between vintage and modern hats, and so fits in the topic. To my mind, if one were able to revive the production of the Cavanagh Edge, then the only reason (besides price) to choose a vintage hat over a modern custom hat would be gone.

Brad

 

[surely]

Given the above, I propose that we get together and start our own custom felting company. I'll take care of trapping & skinning only the best beaver bellies. Anybody for felting. Perhaps some old tie dyers with big tubs?

 

[Jovan]

AlanC: Is that the way Indy Magnoli's club ties came about? I was just under the impression he proposed it in the thread itself.