Main differences between 30's & early 40's suits and the rest out there?

[retrofashion]

Shopping for 30's and early 40's suits on Ebay has not been easy. Most sellers just list suits as "vintages" but as it goes even 80's suits are vintage. Most sellers don't know what era the suit is if you ask. There are many suits out there (probably new suits) that even look somehow the right type. Specially newer double breasted suits. Very hard to tell the difference. Single breasted 3 buttons is also not easy.
So what's the easiest ways to tell if you’re looking at a 30’s or early 40's (pre-WWII) suit?
I know the lapels are normally wider and the cut is normally more streamlined on the waist. But sometimes it's not really easy to tell, specially the cut because most pictures has the jacket lying or hanging and not being worn.
Anybody can shed some light? I have looked at the 1937 and 1941 catalogs post here on the boards, but the drawings are so unrealistic.
Thanks for your help.

 

[Rooster]

I asked exactly the same question six months ago. I'm finally getting to where I can figure it out.
Here's a helpfull thread that will keep you busy for a while.
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=53
The best advice Came from the good Baron "look at and handle in person as many old suits as you can, you'll eventually be able to tell an old suit from a new one." Some what mysterious, but the best advice I got.
Two things help me alot. The "feel" of the fabric and the type of lining and how the seems are finished. A dated label in the breast pocket is a nice touch too.

 

[retrofashion]

Thanks for the thread link. At 101 pages that's sure a monstruos thread.
Yes, handle it in person would probably make it easier. But unfortunately that doesn't work if you're looking at Ebay.

 

[Rooster]

I thought I was going to march right on ebay and buy all kinds of cool 30's and 40's suits. Hasn't worked out that way at all. I'm finding most all my stuff at local thrift stores. Once you start to find this stuff in person you quickly start to find the details you need to look for. I can go down a rack of suits fairly quickly now. I look at the backs first, if it's vented I move on if it's not I look at the lining. If in doubt I look in the breast pocket for labels.
I thought the guys were being secretive and aloof when I started here. Six months later I'm no better at explaining what to look for than they were, but I'm finding some old suits. More advice they gave me: "Hang around, you'll start to figure it out"
That thread I linked is a SUPER resource.!

 

[retrofashion]

Thanks again Rooster. Yes, I'm going through that thread.
So 30's and 40's suits are not vented or you just don't like vents?
By the way, could you throw any light on my sizing thread bellow?

 

[Rooster]

The experts are strangely quite here ......lol
"Most" of the 30's and 40's suits are not vented. I've seen some belted back 30's suits in the old movies that had a center vent, although I've never had one in my hands personally. They are at times fully lined also as I just sold a '49 dated example with a full lining.

 

[Sefton]

Don't pass up a vented suit too quickly. There are suits from that era that have single and (my preference) double vents. The double vents are nice to have on some DB suits as it makes it a bit more practical to get into your pockets and also for comfort when sitting. (not an expert opinion! ).

 

[retrofashion]

Thanks Sefton and Rooster.

The experts are strangely quite here ......lol

Yes, I've been noticing. I wonder if it's the way I'm asking the questions or if maybe people think I'm lazy to search. But I am searching. But the thing about searching is that unless you know the exact term, you can end up spending days and still not find exactly what you are looking for. But I tried a search before posting every question I asked so far. But the information is so fragmented and it's not easy to pick things up when you read expert people talking to each other since they already know all the terms and lingo etc and I'm normally lost.
But the participation in most of my threads have been quite low indeed.
Regardless, I'm thankful to all the people taking the time to help so far. Thanks for that.

About the vents, so it seems it may boil down to personal preference I guess. If they were indeed around at the time, even if rarely, I would think a vent wouldn't exactly throw the suit off that era.

 

[scotrace]

It is mainly that the experts have answered this question many times and in many ways. This place is becoming a vast vault of information - but you have to do a little digging.

 

[Rooster]

Watch old movies from the 30's and 40's. I couldn't even tell you what the plot is in many , I'm concentrating on the clothes to hard!lol

 

[Jovan]

North by Northwest translates to "Cary Grant Wears Great Three-Roll-Two" for sartorialists.

 

[Fletch]

Some basic differences in today's suits

-They're tailored "lower." Lower trouser rise, lower button stance, lower armholes. Of all the changes, these are the most drastic (especially the armholes, which made for a great economy and increased comfort when standing still with arms at sides). And they've all incrementally increased over the years.

-Fusing. This is a method of interior construction that uses sheets of heat-sensitive adhesive to bind the layers of a jacket together. Formerly this was done with large stitches thru a light canvas inner layer, which let the material flow a little more freely. Now they're more or less glued, except in the most expensive jackets.

-The trend to superfine fabrics. There wasn't even 100s wool suiting back in the day. Now they're pushing 140s and 160s. They don't drape - they're too thin - and they wrinkle like mad.

The rest is details. But there are dozens of details, if not more.

 

[resortes805]

OK, here is a quick and dirty guide to telling a vintage suit from a non vintage suits on ebay. Usually, I only shop in the vintage listings. There are tremendous deals to be found in the standard menswear listing, but the search is too time consuming for me. There are several reputable dealers on ebay who only list items that are the highest quality and they usually provide detailed descriptions and photos of their items. Study these pages and you get a better sense of what you are dealing with.

As a caveat, I never buy suits on ebay, they are too expensive for me, since suits that I would wear that are in my size usually go for $400.00-700.00, meanwhile I can still get them on the street for anywhere between $10-20 at thrift stores and $60-200 at the vintage shops. However, I do bid on separates because they tend to be more affordable Also, I usually shop for 40's items so these are the details I tend to look for.

Let's start with slacks:

Hollywood Waist

This is a hollywood waist, no waistband and dropped belt loops. Usually indicates a 1940's or 1950's origin, but I've seen 30's slacks with a hollywood waist before.

Dropped belt loops aged inside lining

These slacks have a waistband, but notice how the loops are lower than the top. Also, does the inside lining look old or discolored? Only vintage NOS (new old stock) slacks will have a pristine lining, and those are rare and are usually marked as such.

Button flys

Who still wears dress pants with a button fly? Hardly anyone, but button fly slacks were popular during the golden era. I've seen more 1930's slacks with button flys than 40's ones.

Pocket flaps

These two styles of pocket flaps usually indicate a vintage origin.

The fit

Look at how roomy these slacks look. 1940's slacks were cut quite fully with wide cuffs.

Other Details

Learn to tell the difference between 30s-40s-50s slacks. Each era has there own set of characteristics, and the quicker you learn them the quicker you can work on what style you want to work on.

Coats

Vents

Some one mentioned it before, but most suits from this era are unvented. In fact, I've seen maybe 5 out of hundreds of 1930s and 1940s suit coats that are vented. However, shallow vents are prominent are 1950's coat.

Lining

Most american vintage suits are not fully lined, rather they are partially lined with taped seams.

Union Tags

A 1939 Union tags means the suit if from the 1940's and a 1949 union tag means that the suit is from the 1950's/

 

[retrofashion]

WOW! resortes805, thanks a lot for taking the time. Great help!

The fit

Look at how roomy these slacks look. 1940's slacks were cut quite fully with wide cuffs.

One of the things I notice on Ebay is that most said vintage suits don't show that streamlined look as the double breasted jacket above. This jacket really slims down at the waist. Most Ebay vintage suits look like potatoe sacks. Is it just the way they are shown, maybe on a too skiny manequin or are they fakes?

 

[Orgetorix]

WOW! resortes805, thanks a lot for taking the time. Great help!



One of the things I notice on Ebay is that most said vintage suits don't show that streamlined look as the double breasted jacket above. This jacket really slims down at the waist. Most Ebay vintage suits look like potatoe sacks. Is it just the way they are shown, maybe on a too skiny manequin or are they fakes?

That suit would not look as streamlined either if it weren't pinned in the back. It's often hard to tell the shape of a jacket unless 1) the mannequin is shaped like a human body, which many aren't, and, 2) the jacket fits the mannequin perfectly. Many jackets have more shape to them than is immediately apparent in a mannequin shot.

 

[reetpleat]

It is mainly that the experts have answered this question many times and in many ways. This place is becoming a vast vault of information - but you have to do a little digging.

It isn't just that. Having been a dealr and collected many old suits, I remember people in sf asking the question. If you have arack of suits it is easy to start showing what to look for, but it is hard to describe. I would say the advice of handling many is the best. It is such second nature to an expert that you can tell in a second on all but the oddest custom tailored suits.

I can walk down a rack of suits in a thrift store and just use my eyes, although I touch many of them just to somehow connect to them. I am occasionallg fooled at first glance by a seventies suit, but I have learned to not get too excited at spotting a nice fabric as it is more often a seventies than a vintage.

I remember my best suit, beautiful hollywood clothes with three piec and very extreme flashy cut. I had to look and look because I couldn't believe ai had found such a nice suit on a thrift store rack for thirty bucks.

I definitely second the advice of handling them, the touch, the look the feel the fit. It will become second nature.

 

[reetpleat]

That suit would not look as streamlined either if it weren't pinned in the back. It's often hard to tell the shape of a jacket unless 1) the mannequin is shaped like a human body, which many aren't, and, 2) the jacket fits the mannequin perfectly. Many jackets have more shape to them than is immediately apparent in a mannequin shot.

Truth is while most illustrations or movie stars had that great pinched at the waist look, many men were bigger around the waist, or did not care about the look as much as comfort nd off the rack. Most suit makers probably cut hte jackets bigger in the waist than they needed to be so men could take out the slacks etc. Most men probably did not care as much as we might. Many vintage suits would probably be best served by a visit to the tailor to get taht real vintage look we love.

 

[retrofashion]

That suit would not look as streamlined either if it weren't pinned in the back. It's often hard to tell the shape of a jacket unless 1) the mannequin is shaped like a human body, which many aren't, and, 2) the jacket fits the mannequin perfectly. Many jackets have more shape to them than is immediately apparent in a mannequin shot.

Makes sense. Thanks.


Thanks for your posts too reetpleat.

 

[iammatt]

I posted this in response to a similar question on another forum. These two were made 75 years apart at the same tailor shop. I think that the average custom made suit has not changed that much at all, at least in the jacket. The pants have, as have RTW suits, but you do need to be careful before making blanket judgments.

 

[Rooster]

I posted this in response to a similar question on another forum. These two were made 75 years apart at the same tailor shop. I think that the average custom made suit has not changed that much at all, at least in the jacket. The pants have, as have RTW suits, but you do need to be careful before making blanket judgments.

Pretty obvious in the lapels alone....look at the belly in the vintage suit lapels. And , I might add, that 30's suit you could wear to a rastlin' match and not feel restricted in any movement, they used to know how to make a suit for active folks.