Made in America. Stayed in America.

[HoosierDaddy]

I think that people should remember that Labour laws or Workers Rights and conditions are a sign of an equal (ish) and intelligent society, A fair days work for a fair days days pay and all that. The 'improved' working terms and conditions didn't just happen, they cost a lot of blood, sweat and tears from some very brave people over the years. Accepted that towards the late 70s the pendulum swung quite a long way past the fair and equal and into the realms of Union craziness, works to rule etc etc (well it did in the UK), but that's no reason for people to return to the bad old days of the industrial revolution and the terrible conditions of the late 19th century even if its happening in somebody else's country.

Good post and I agree. It happened here in the U.S. as well.
HD

 

[Heiko]

GuyLdeB's comments don't seem too realistic or respectful to different societies that have differing standards of living.

Things have changed, just wishing won't reverse things.

 

[ButteMT61]

Boots don't contain souls...neither do factories. When you look at it logically there is indeed something daft about it. It's your money of course though, it is important that you're satisfied. Also a bigger question, why do operations in developing or non-Western states not have souls?

See, you don't get it and I think you'd be better served at a mall myself. You don't think a factory has a "soul" because you've obviously never been to a place that I'm speaking of. A factory, where generations of a family and/or workers built a product with care and pride is a "soul" A cheap, modern factory with mechanized manufacturing, slave labor, child labor, and no sense of history or invention or pride makes a place what it is - or isn't - and I have no interest in a product from places like that when I have a choice.As kids, we took field trips to family owned businesses. Some of them were clothing companies, some made axes and tools. You felt and saw the tradition and pride there. Stuck with me all these years for a reason.

I'm not going to attempt to explain it because I in fact believe you to be a troublemaking troll here. You displayed an arrogance and desire to come in new and "shake things up" with your dry attempt at wit and knowledge. I'll pass. This place is filled with folks that "get it". You either don't, or get a kick out of acting like you don't. Either way, you're the type that made me spend less time chatting online, and I think I'll go back to my cave now. Ciao!

 

[fukigen]

See, you don't get it and I think you'd be better served at a mall myself. You don't think a factory has a "soul" because you've obviously never been to a place that I'm speaking of. A factory, where generations of a family and/or workers built a product with care and pride is a "soul" A cheap, modern factory with mechanized manufacturing, slave labor, child labor, and no sense of history or invention or pride makes a place what it is - or isn't - and I have no interest in a product from places like that when I have a choice.As kids, we took field trips to family owned businesses. Some of them were clothing companies, some made axes and tools. You felt and saw the tradition and pride there. Stuck with me all these years for a reason.

I'm not going to attempt to explain it because I in fact believe you to be a troublemaking troll here. You displayed an arrogance and desire to some in new and "shake things up" with your dry attempt at wit and knowledge. I'll pass. This place is filled with folks that "get it". You either don't, or get a kick out of acting like you don't. Either way, you're the type that made me spend less time chatting online, and I think I'll go back to my cave now. Ciao!

+1

 

[Smithy]

I include as a sign of quality the working conditions of those who make the items. I won't be compelled to explain or apologize for it.

And you shouldn't have to.

I agree 100%.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

See, you don't get it and I think you'd be better served at a mall myself. You don't think a factory has a "soul" because you've obviously never been to a place that I'm speaking of. A factory, where generations of a family and/or workers built a product with care and pride is a "soul" A cheap, modern factory with mechanized manufacturing, slave labor, child labor, and no sense of history or invention or pride makes a place what it is - or isn't - and I have no interest in a product from places like that when I have a choice.As kids, we took field trips to family owned businesses. Some of them were clothing companies, some made axes and tools. You felt and saw the tradition and pride there. Stuck with me all these years for a reason.

I'm not going to attempt to explain it because I in fact believe you to be a troublemaking troll here. You displayed an arrogance and desire to come in new and "shake things up" with your dry attempt at wit and knowledge. I'll pass. This place is filled with folks that "get it". You either don't, or get a kick out of acting like you don't. Either way, you're the type that made me spend less time chatting online, and I think I'll go back to my cave now. Ciao!

Well,Butte..seems we must now even respect dark souless companies/societies that exploit their workers/citizens with only minimal respect and concern for them. Kinda like the occassional new forum member who pops up on a forum only interested in making conditions miserable trying to dominate all involved.

 

[ButteMT61]

Well,Butte..seems we must now even respect dark souless companies/societies that exploit their workers/citizens with only minimal respect and concern for them. Kinda like the occassional new forum member who pops up on a forum only interested in making conditions miserable trying to dominate all involved.

Touché! He won't last. Once he realizes that this place isn't filled with the gullible rubes he's looking to jab into a flame war, he'll go elsewhere. Or he'll be shown the door...

 

[Heiko]

See, you don't get it and I think you'd be better served at a mall myself. You don't think a factory has a "soul" because you've obviously never been to a place that I'm speaking of. A factory, where generations of a family and/or workers built a product with care and pride is a "soul" A cheap, modern factory with mechanized manufacturing, slave labor, child labor, and no sense of history or invention or pride makes a place what it is - or isn't - and I have no interest in a product from places like that when I have a choice.As kids, we took field trips to family owned businesses. Some of them were clothing companies, some made axes and tools. You felt and saw the tradition and pride there. Stuck with me all these years for a reason.

I'm not going to attempt to explain it because I in fact believe you to be a troublemaking troll here. You displayed an arrogance and desire to come in new and "shake things up" with your dry attempt at wit and knowledge. I'll pass. This place is filled with folks that "get it". You either don't, or get a kick out of acting like you don't. Either way, you're the type that made me spend less time chatting online, and I think I'll go back to my cave now. Ciao!

Why am I accused of being rude when I have a self proclaimed Captain America Blue Collar telling me I'm better suited to mall shopping? It is a funny insult though, and I understand that you may not like my ideas--doesn't mean we have to dislike each other.

I think your dichotomy is way off: good factories, generations of artisans in love with product and work; vs, bad factories, slaves whipped by overlords in some far off dystopia.

Your idea of good factories is ahistorical--as your description is more the stereotype of the craftsman. Even during the time of Henry Ford factory work was rather mind numbing. You are nostalgic for a time that never existed. Read up on the development of the Arts and Crafts movement.

Me pointing this out shouldn't be considered mean, but rather just factual. Listen, anyone who has been around luxury goods long enough realizes that a big part of the price is imaginary. It isn't rooted in quality or craftsmanship--it's rooted in deft marketing. There are many examples of this--in the end, whatever makes you happy.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Touché! He won't last. Once he realizes that this place isn't filled with the gullible rubes he's looking to jab into a flame war, he'll go elsewhere. Or he'll be shown the door...

Well..initially the FL respects everyone. However,sometimes,it can just become a waiting game.

 

[Heiko]

You seem to be outraged by me, you take affront to my posts. Well, you can easily have me dismissed by taking issue with argument rather than personality. Your boorish protests belie your age. Be cool daddy, I haven't read anything by you that isn't a meek complaint.

 

[ButteMT61]

Why am I accused of being rude when I have a self proclaimed Captain America Blue Collar telling me I'm better suited to mall shopping? It is a funny insult though, and I understand that you may not like my ideas--doesn't mean we have to dislike each other.I think your dichotomy is way off: good factories, generations of artisans in love with product and work; vs, bad factories, slaves whipped by overlords in some far off dystopia.Your idea of good factories is ahistorical--as your description is more the stereotype of the craftsman. Even during the time of Henry Ford factory work was rather mind numbing. You are nostalgic for a time that never existed. Read up on the development of the Arts and Crafts movement.Me pointing this out shouldn't be considered mean, but rather just factual. Listen, anyone who has been around luxury goods long enough realizes that a big part of the price is imaginary. It isn't rooted in quality or craftsmanship--it's rooted in deft marketing. There are many examples of this--in the end, whatever makes you happy.

Here's but one example of what I speak. http://vimeo.com/4814754 I've also visited places like Aero personally, and I am confident that those figments of my imagination exist and flourish. You're truly boring me now.

 

[Tomasso]

This troll's inane drivel is polluting the lounge. Will somebody please pull the plug on him.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

You seem to be outraged by me, you take affront to my posts. Well, you can easily have me dismissed by taking issue with argument rather than personality. Your boorish protests belie your age. Be cool daddy, I haven't read anything by you that isn't a meek complaint.

It's not your arguments that get under other member's skin,but your tactics. However..I think you do know that..finding considerable enjoyment with the extra antagonism. Keep it up. I'm sure it will serve you well.
HD

 

[Heiko]

Here's but one example of what I speak. http://vimeo.com/4814754 I've also visited places like Aero personally, and I am confident that those figments of my imagination exist and flourish. You're truly boring me now.

I will try to keep my posting in this thread to a minimum because of the series of personal attacks by misfits who have no time for reason.

That is an ad for Horween leather--working in a tannery is not wonderful, it is an unsatisfying place for creativity. Any place where you are on a factory floor that is heavily mechanized is not ideal for expression of creativity. We won't get anywhere, not because I am trolling but because you don't really understand fully what you are talking about.

It doesn't hurt me if you are closed minded...I don't care if you think factories in the US are amazing but factories in China are hellish

 

[Feraud]

You seem to be outraged by me, you take affront to my posts. Well, you can easily have me dismissed by taking issue with argument rather than personality. Your boorish protests belie your age. Be cool daddy, I haven't read anything by you that isn't a meek complaint.

If it were one member taking affront I'd write it off as a personality clash and advise both parties to ignore each other. The fact is in your short time here you've clashed with multiple members. We've exchanged private messages about the tone of your posts and I've received multiple private messages and reported posts complaining about the tone of your posts.

Please take some time and evaluate how you come off to others. Whatever you are currently doing is not working.

 

[Heiko]

It's not your arguments that get under other member's skin,but your tactics. However..I think you do know that..finding considerable enjoyment with the extra antagonism. Keep it up. I'm sure it will serve you well.
HD

Tactics? What tactics? And what have you done other than antagonize me? I think it is better you stop pretending to be taking the moral high ground.

 

[Heiko]

If it were one member taking affront I'd write it off as a personality clash and advise both parties to ignore each other. The fact is in your short time here you've clashed with multiple members. We've exchanged private messages about the tone of your posts and I've received multiple private messages and reported posts complaining about the tone of your posts.

Please take some time and evaluate how you come off to others. Whatever you are currently doing is not working.

If you can quote some lines by me that are clearly mean spirited, I will stop posting in this thread entirely.

Sometimes people just don't like it when they are exposed to different viewpoints---doesn't mean I am a bad guy.

 

[wdw]

Boringly back on topic, I found Butte's link really interesting and look forward to visiting AE in NY later in the year to see the shoes for myself.

I'd love to see something similar for jacket making.

 

[ButteMT61]

Boringly back on topic, I found Butte's link really interesting and look forward to visiting AE in NY later in the year to see the shoes for myself.I'd love to see something similar for jacket making.

Schott had a short stint on a show on History Channel - I think it was "How It's Made". Similarly done, showing the 100 years of a family-run company. Is it glamorous? Maybe not. But I know my Grandpa who owned and worked every day of his life in a Seattle ship repair shop loved the work. Loved the grease, the dirt, the job, the people. This guy doesn't get it. I don't care. I do think there's a difference as I read the tech news every week on how BAD Chinese factories are. Similar to what we saw here, pre-union in the 1900's.The guy probably doesn't even own a leather jacket, or boots, or belt. That's my guess...

 

[Sloan1874]

Read about the Horween tannery but fascinating to see it in action. A lot skill and knowledge at work there. My home town used to be known for tanning hides, during the 18th century there were 17 tanneries, but they carried on for years - polluted the town's loch terribly. Would love to see some examples of their work.