Made in America. Stayed in America.

[fukigen]

here is an interesting article I found on yahoo finance while searching the web I wanted to share.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/made-in-america--stayed-in-america--195200450.html

I just think they could analyse the topic a bit deeper, and eventually apply it for other countries regarding outsourcing to other "cheap price" countries...

I am just happy to read that some companies didn't left the place where they started their business... unlike some big companies (the very reason why I don't buy products from Nike, one among others, anymore)
and as I like Schott jackets very much, I am really happy they are still there and making jacket in the US.
no patriotism here, as I am Swiss living in Switzerland... and very happy that the Swiss army knife is still produced in Switzerland

I think in our globalized world, it is not easy for such companies to compete/struggle with cheap mass products, and these "small" makers need our support, don't you?

edit: That could also include GW in US, aero and elc in UK, etc...

 

[Peacoat]

So, is there any truth to the rumor that the Swiss Army knife may be outsourced to China next fiscal year? Please say it ain't so, OJ.

 

[fukigen]

So, is there any truth to the rumor that the Swiss Army knife may be outsourced to China next fiscal year? Please say it ain't so, OJ.

god forbid!
Here we are proud of the "Swiss made" (knives, watches (even we cannot afford to buy them), chocolate, etc...), I am sure it would be kind of scandal in Switzerland if that would happen!

off topic, but for the story,
there were 2 makers, Victorinox and Wenger. A few years ago Wenger went bankrupt and was bought by Victorinox, but still built and produced knives in their factory under Wenger name until end of 2012. From this year, only Victorinox brand exists, still made in Switzerland.

and the red knife we all know (thanks to McGuyver) is in fact not the one officialy in use in Swiss army.
The one I got was the following (there is no cork-screw! no good for soldiers to drink wine )

and has been replaced 4 years ago by this one:

So, any Swiss army knife you buy will be made in Switzerland (unless copy from China )

if any interest: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13772_3-20078593-52/where-the-swiss-army-knife-gets-made/

 

[Peacoat]

Good story; thank you for the link.

 

[majormajor]

A very good thread, and alot of sense.

If I lived in the US, I would definitely buy GW jackets. And possibly Himmel.

As it is, I live in the UK, and so stick to Aero and ELC.

I don't mean this in any kind of critical way, but I am amazed at the number of folks who buy very expensive jackets from "over the ocean", having to rely on the vagaries of the delivery companies and the odd measuring techniques of some companies. Sending a jacket back, because it doesn't fit, from, say, California to Scotland or Devon must be a real ballache...

Driving steadily north through the Kilder Forest to Galashiels is SO much easier

Also started wearing Freddies "made in England" jeans, too

 

[Fanch]

Strangely, I feel that I can buy from Aero with confidence; and Holly, Lydia, Ken, Christine, etc. seem sort of like family to me at this point. Major, if you ever make your way into a store in the US that sells Bill's Khakis 5 pocket jeans, be sure to P/U a couple as IMO Bill's jean are the best value in jeans sold anywhere, even at $115.

 

[ForestForTheTrees]

Thanks for the link. I was truly expecting to see Rancourt & Co. profiled amongst those chosen, but will enjoy reading through them all just the same.

 

[Fanch]

Thanks for the link. I was truly expecting to see Rancourt & Co. profiled amongst those chosen, but will enjoy reading through them all just the same.

I have heard great press about Rancourt shoes in the past. Unfortunately, I wear 13AA, and Rancourt's most narrow sizing is B width. However, Alden on New England ...

 

[JanSolo]

Good thread!

I totally agree with what has been said so far!
It's the same dilemma over here! "Made in Germany" also used to be a strong selling point for many quality products. But since all German car manufacturers source their components from elsewhere and BMW and Mercedes even opened manufacturing plants in the US (JUST to make sure that there are enough cup holders (about 10) in their M-Class and X5) I'm not so confident about our products any more.
So what's left? I guess you'll then have to stick with Leica cameras and Lange & Söhne watches which can be painfully expensive... (Not that I could afford any of those)

BTW: If you like Rancourt you should look into their "Hand sewn" line they make for Red Wing. Great shoes which represent a terrific value considering the amount of manual labour that went into them.
Here's an interesting and well made video on Vimeo about them.

http://vimeo.com/36702624

Just to give you an idea:

 

[ForestForTheTrees]

Rancourt makes shoes for a lot of different companies and it's hard to keep tabs on them all. It's the footwear that they sell under their own name that astonishes me the most while usually costing quite a bit less than the shoes produced for other companies on contract. Everything I purchased from them was made to order and was turned around in under two weeks time. I believe that their popularity has increased since then, and the lead times have probably started to rise, but for what you get their shoes are a bargain. They source almost all of their leather from Horween, but do use a few other tanneries. As to the tie-in to this thread, other than a few of the leathers that come from England or Italy, pretty much everything else is sourced from here in the USA, including the packaging that they use. In addition, not only did they save local jobs when Allen-Edmonds was going to pull out of town by buying back their business, they've continued to grow, growing the number of local jobs as well. Most of the folks that work there are either veteran shoemakers or came from a family rich in shoemaking tradition (often both). This a very cool story in my book, and their quality is top notch.

 

[OneEyeMan]

I consider myself a knife user more than a collector.
I've owned 2 of the Victorinox soldier knives as shown in your pic above.
I've owned Sebenzas, high end Spydercos and Benchmades, etc
The Soldier's I've owned have been every bit as good fit and finish wise as the high end knives I've owned.
Actually, my newest Soldier is absolutely perfect in every respect.
Amazing since they turn out millions of them a year.
Lenny

 

[Stanley Doble]

This trend may be reversing. See this article in December's Atlantic Monthly.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/12/the-insourcing-boom/309166/

 

[Heiko]

Thanks for the article! I don't think the trend is reversing for most things though, seems like just certain things.

But what is the issue with goods that are produced overseas as long as they are good quality? Japanese cars are pretty good but they aren't all produced in Japan. Also, aren't some Leicas made in Portugal? And then there the question about consistency--do you only care about where your luxury goods are produced but not very much invested in who makes your tooth brushes or your dining chairs?

Logically I can't understand the need for seeking domestic brands unless it is fueled by some kind of nationalism. The whole concern seems a little parochial. Anyways, what would really happen if the Chinese made Swiss Army knives? If care was taken, they'd probably work just as fine and be cheaper.

 

[Edward]

Thanks for the article! I don't think the trend is reversing for most things though, seems like just certain things.

Certainly that seems to be the case here in the UK - niche products, and luxury products, where low price is not absolutely key. And there we have the crux of it: The manufacturing only goes offshore to cheaper places because the market demands lower prices. Same thing that drives quality down.

But what is the issue with goods that are produced overseas as long as they are good quality? Japanese cars are pretty good but they aren't all produced in Japan. And then there the question about consistency--do you only care about where your luxury goods are produced but not very much invested in who makes your tooth brushes or your dining chairs?

Logically I can't understand the need for seeking domestic brands unless it is fueled by some kind of nationalism. The whole concern seems a little parochial. Anyways, what would really happen if the Chinese made Swiss Army knives? If care was taken, they'd probably work just as fine and be cheaper.

There are a lot of issues involved here. I agree that sometimes it can be about nothing more than petty nationalism - "our stuff is best". I've seen that over and over in guitar world. Sometimes people don't get the economics and just assume the Chinese can only make rubbish because they only things they see coming out of China is the cheap rubbish ordered by the West. Sometimes it's just simply bigotry: I actually saw a guy argue once that Chinese made instruments could only ever be inferior because "they're not musicians and they don't understand rock and roll". Beggars belief. The guy obviously never knew that Leo Fender himself couldn't play guitar, let alone a pronounced ignorance of the Chinese music scene. Anyhow.... There are also plenty of othe issues at lay. I can understand localism when it pertains to the "what ifs" of fit and quality. It's enough of a pain in the bum to return goods by post within the UK, let alone to the US... Then there is the argument that it's simply more environmentally responsible to not be transporting stuff that can be "made here" halfway around the world. Also, there is the notion of supporting jobs / trade in your own local economy.

I do see much more of the "buy your own" culture in the US than ever I have here, but I think that simply comes down to the fact that they still have a manufacturing industry of some significance, which we don't, niche products aside. (Are there any car assembly plants left in the UK? I keep thinking no, and then another one crops up on the news because it is about to close).

 

[Heiko]

A lot of luxury goods are made in China anyway, you just have to be careful--Made in China is not necessarily poor quality. So I agree with you. But as for reversing trend, I think a lot of luxury goods have always relied on their origin for their marketing. With cars that seems to have eroded, but I don't know of many high end products that were once made in the UK then outsourced to China and now coming back to UK. So for niche products that command a high price, I don't think things have changed all that much.

The local economy stuff is not compelling...Local economy usually becomes important when buying an Aero jacket or something--luxury goods don't enrich the local economy all that much. Anyways, place of production is not important to me as is quality. Making say, a shoe, isn't rocket science and even if it was; well, the Chinese make good rockets too.

 

[tonypaj]

Sure, one can take the practical, some would say even cynical, point of view to economies on the planet, and how they affect an individual. We can all look after the no 1, make rational choices, after all a watch is a watch, and leather jacket a leather jacket, car is a car, and on and on. And we can find the very best deals for ourselves, save a bit of money here, a bit there, and still get a quality product.

I prefer to look around me, see the people here, support what they do, if that is not possible, expand slowly. I've done that on the three continents I've lived in, consistently over the last 25-30 years. Right now most of the stuff in my house is either of local origin, custom built by locals, or bought locally wherever I was at the time. Chinese stuff? I'm sure I have a whole lot, electronics especially, but e.g. at the flea market at Lyon you can still get equally good deals for old French other stuff, even though the prices are way over the top compared to 10 years ago, and you can add the fun of going there 6.30 am on a cold Sunday morning to compete with the pros for the best stuff...

 

[Heiko]

This kind of reasoning can get ridiculous fast--for instance your appliances are all French locally made? Your toothbrush was made by French craftsmen? How about your toilet--it is French made?

How about your tires--they are French? Is your gasoline, French made and drilled in France? Maybe your out of season produce is French too? Your French made furnishings, all custom--and they were made with French wood? Do you wear French locally made clothing?

In order to really do all this, purchase domestic everything--then you have to go without a lot and also have to be able to spend lavishly quite often. It is impossible, globalization isn't just theory. Even when it comes to luxury goods--some of my furniture was made in Portugal not the UK. You need to inject, the "I support the local community and love my fellow man" with some realism. Anyways, what is the moral issue of supporting Chinese workmen--must they be French because you are French. People are people.

 

[Sloan1874]

"Sometimes people don't get the economics and just assume the Chinese can only make rubbish because they only things they see coming out of China is the cheap rubbish ordered by the West."

Funnily enough, I heard somebody talking about this on R4 last week. They simply made the point that Chinese factories are actually extremely efficient and capable of doing exactly what they Western companies request. The problem is that they are being asked by these businesses to produce low budget items.

I agree that producing luxury goods rarely brings money to the area, but in Aero and Alexander Leathers' case a quirk of location has meant that Gala has Scotland's main textile college based out there, so it's a good source of employment for local grads in lean times.

 

[tonypaj]

This kind of reasoning can get ridiculous fast--for instance your appliances are all French locally made? Your toothbrush was made by French craftsmen? How about your toilet--it is French made?

How about your tires--they are French? Is your gasoline, French made and drilled in France? Maybe your out of season produce is French too? Your French made furnishings, all custom--and they were made with French wood? Do you wear French locally made clothing?

In order to really do all this, purchase domestic everything--then you have to go without a lot and also have to be able to spend lavishly quite often. It is impossible, globalization isn't just theory. Even when it comes to luxury goods--some of my furniture was made in Portugal not the UK. You need to inject, the "I support the local community and love my fellow man" with some realism. Anyways, what is the moral issue of supporting Chinese workmen--must they be French because you are French. People are people.

I'll answer your questions, one by one...

I already said my electronics (in my mind that includes appliances) are probably Chinese or partially so. I do not know where Smeg or Panasonic or Musical Fidelity make their products, my loudspeakers, DALI, are supposed to be Danish, where I once lived. But I cannot guarantee that. My gasoline comes from Shell or Exxon, not French probably as they don't drill oil here much. My electricity is all French, produced by nuclear plants (should make you scared), locally. Where they get their plutonium, well I do not know (see how silly it can get).

My tires are bad stuff, German, for my Jeep made in Canada, sort of close to the US, where I once lived. Out of season produce is mainly from France, southern France is there for that, though I like mangoes from South America and Africa (well, I used to live in Africa, as well, and my wife is in love with South America). I'm also pleased to have fruit from the rest of the planet, my stomach feels happier. Wine, well, 95% French. Good stuff. My clothing is a mixture of hand made in Kenya and American (made in the US) stuff, and t-shirts and stuff obviously from wherever. And I do not know where the Kenyan tailor got his fabrics. He employs locals, he is a local there, that's enough for me.

The wood for the furnishings is French. Though my floor is from Spain, tiles from a castle there. But bought locally from a 2nd hand stuff dealer in Switzerland. Just to save confusion, I lived 15 miles from my present location in France, on the Swiss side of the border, for 9 years. Those guys are also local, they have worked in my house, they look at the area as local, Pays de Gex or Canton de Geneve or Vaud.

I, fortunately, do not have to go without a lot. I do spend lavishly, some would not even leave it there... And I am not French, I just live here, and work in Switzerland. And my furniture is not made in Portugal, majority bought in small local places or flea markets. And my house is 250 years old, guaranteed local

See how silly it can get. And my leather jackets are either originals, or Aero. My golf clubs definitely come from far east, but they are always adjusted locally to my specs. And I am glad to pay for it...

 

[fukigen]

the point for me was more:
- products made locally, possibly a bit more expensive, saving local jobs that would need our support to "survive"
vs.
- products outsourced to cheap making costs countries, sold the same price or even more expensive than if they were made locally, and knowledge (and jobs) lost locally

like getting a schott jacket instead of a RL jacket... (no arm against both brands, just the first example that cam to mind)

also no nationalism anger, I have blue jeans made in China, bought while in Japan (uniqlo stores), and they are good quality, lasting longer (4 years now) than my last levi's jeans...
but even my father in law (japanese) told me that since uniqlo run their business (with mainly unexpensive but good quality clothes made in China), many clothes factories and shops had to close their doors in Japan, as they became too expensive and couldn't compete, resulting in job and knowledge loss.

Chinese people are working hard to level up their products, and now companies are looking to move the factory out of China to more cheaper countries... at the end, chinese people will also face the same issue.

and Swiss army knives not made in Switzerland cannot be called "Swiss" army knives anymore
you can already buy kind of made in China, but honestly, when you have both in hands, you know which one you keep (at least for the moment...)