Any recent pics of this jacket ?
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lost worlds
- Thread starter tommygun
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ultrark2004
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the picture of me was taken last oct
I'd say the Langliz is the same weight but softer? My Bates Terminator II is so damn heavy, it's roughly the same consutrction and size as my Vanson and LW, but it's heavier, which could only be explained by the density of the leather.
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Experience of the product is certainly one thing, though when evaluating where I want to spend my money, there are other things I'd take into account. There is, for example, one other maker I've chosen not to deal with because their approach to marketing and a sales enquiry I made put me right off. I was put off dealing with LW directly (though I do own one of their jackets I bought use, and have handled others too) owing to their marketing approach. I consider that sort of thing to be a valid opinion on the company and their sales and marketing stretegy, albeit a different thing from a valid opinion on the actual product quality, which I would agree can only really come from handling the end product.
------ Let's me guess who the other maker is? Bates? hahahaha. Ordering a jacket from Bates is like jumping through a thousand hoops and getting your brain scrambled. Let me tell you, far worse than Stu. Stu is curt and arrogant, but doesn't waste your time and doesn't put words in your mouth only to argue with those words, Bates does.
------ Let's me guess who the other maker is? Bates? hahahaha. Ordering a jacket from Bates is like jumping through a thousand hoops and getting your brain scrambled. Let me tell you, far worse than Stu. Stu is curt and arrogant, but doesn't waste your time and doesn't put words in your mouth only to argue with those words, Bates does.
Thought this is as good a thread as "Aero Leather" if there was one. I want to know the comparison of Aero's J-24 vs LW's. I'd suppose LW is the king of Buco repro these days? How does the proportion/fit/mobility compare? I never owned a LW J-24, had a Legedary USA one by Schott, it was pretty decent, like second skin, but in retrospect, it was a kids' jacket, light, thin and nowhere near as beefy as a LW or Aero.
les_garten
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I had a LW J-24 Custom, an Aero Indian Ranger, and 2 Langlitz Padded Pocket Columbia.
LW was unwearable, but absolutely beautifully made. Just too stiff and Plastic-ky to even think about wearing. I also have a LW G-1 and A-2. They are keepers. Sold the J-24 Custom at a pretty good loss.
The Aero Indian Ranger was Heavy FQHH, but a bit small for me, had to let it go. It was also beautifully made, heavy FQHH, but Aero FQ goes slack after you wear it a bit. Just some initial work to put in. LW never slacks up that I have experienced.
Still have both Langlitz, my pick for KING of these types of jackets by a far piece. Quality of all 3 are awesome, really hard to say one is better than the other. But for comfort of wear, Langlitz, hands down. IMO quality of construction is as good if not better than LW and a bit better than Aero.
So quality: Langlitz > LW >>> Aero all very good though
Fit/Comfort/Cut of jacket: Langlitz > Aero >>>> LW
Leather Quality/Materials: Langlitz > Aero > >>>> LW
LW's leather is hard to describe or even conceptualize that leather like that exists or even should exist.
The reason why LW says what it does about it's jackets is because of complaints. People have complained about them, so he calls you names basically. You're not worthy.
If you can't wear his jackets, you're a pansy metrosexual, !@$%&@, blah, blah, blah...
Unfortunately I'll have to sell my Langlitz as well, medical issues have sidelined all motorcycle riding for the duration.
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KissMyMuscle
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@Carlos840 I believe Carlos can give you a good statement about LW J24. He owned both LW and Legendary USA buco j24.
I'm a big fan of LW, they are IMO as good a jacket as you can currently buy, you can't go wrong getting one.
I would not put LW, Aero and Schott on the same level, Aero and Schott belong together, but IMO with LW you are getting into FW/RMC territory, they are really nice jackets and are a clear step above.
The construction is better, with much more precise and much tighter stitching.
The patterns that i have tried are very comfortable with great range of motion. I will agree that Langlitz has a very very small edge in term of range of motion/comfort, but IMO they pay the price by looking "messier", the gussets are bigger, they are not as clean looking. The LW designs look IMO much neater when worn.
The leather is very unique and has a lot of character whilst being super durable, its a really fun jacket to break in as it really evolves noticeably as you wear it more.
The fact that you can get Crown zippers is IMO a huge plus, they are without a doubt the finest zippers ever made.
The idea that a LW is unwearable is IMO ridiculous, yes they are thick, but the patterns are so well thought out and that they feel effortless to wear. The idea that they are impossible to break in is just as bad, it takes less time to break in a LW than a Vanson Comp weight jacket.
I have never had a problem with Stuart, yes his emails are short and to the point, but he always answers promptly. (who else answers his work email at 6 am on a Sunday? To compare, my last four emails to Aero were never answered...)
If you find his short emails a turn off, try calling him, he is very easy going and interesting to talk to on the phone.
I have contacted him with questions unrelated to his jackets and he was always ready to help and share his knowledge.
Here are a couple fit pics of mine, you have probably seen them before, but they are IMO really hard to beat:
And then a couple grain shots comparing LW on the left and Schott HH to the right, IMO the Schott is the one that looks/feels plastic-ky (the LW is barely broken in, the Schott is from 2006!):
If i had to add a comparison to Langlitz, i would say that Langlitz has a very very slight edge in comfort/range of motion.
LW has a very very slight edge over Langlitz as far as construction goes. Both are very neat, but the LW is trying to be a bit finer in the details and succeeding.
Leather wise, LW is IMO a couple big steps ahead of Langlitz, IMO the Langlitz cowhide is what lets them down, it feels a bit characterless, just smooth and shiny. (I would say the same thing about Lewis)
Overall, i think both deserve to stand on the same step, but i give the edge to LW for the nicer leather.
I literally put my money where my mouth is, i have two LW and two more on order.
I own four Aeros and six Schott/Legendary and i would not pay "new price tag" money for either of those brands anymore after owning/wearing LW jackets for a couple years. They are IMO not remotely on the same level, it's a bit like comparing a Bentley and a Toyota corolla .
If you have any more specific question don't hesitate.
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As much as I hate to admit it - and I NEVER liked Lost Worlds and never quite will, and the fact that I got a $2000 jacket on order with them speaks for itself - all that @Carlos840 said is true.
I personally wouldn't put them drastically ahead of, say, Aero material-wise - the CXL has got enough unique charm not to be in any comparison with LW's sturdy HH which admittedly does feel & look a bit more plasticy - but the patterns indeed are considerably more comfortable and utilitarian. My Speed Demon is a 100% proper motorcycle jacket in every possible way and that does set it apart from most alternatives on the repro market. Except for Vanson of course.
Same as I'd place them ahead of Langlitz when it comes to how the jackets look when worn. While Langlitz is more refined than LW when it comes to some decorative details (though that's not what LW is all about since they hardly have any original designs, while Langlitz exclusively makes their own styles), TBH their jackets... Well, don't often fit very well. At all. Lots of Langlitz styles are too round, featureless and look like leather orbs. Much less shape to them.
I understand it's an approach that helps if you want your jackets to be comfortable but sometimes you want to be sure the jacket'll look good. Some of the Langlitz' I've seen... I'd literally have cried if I got that for $2500+.
Schott vs. LW... Schott jackets are in general well made, very comfortable and fit just fine. The material and attention to detail sets them back from LW but I said this before and I'll say it again, Schott's more premium lines are on nearly the same level as LW and if they tried, they could own anyone in the competition. Schott's exclusive CXL jackets, the 519, even the PER line... If you want the sleekest MC jackets out there, there's no alternative. None.
LW is directly knocking off three styles currently made by Schott and that alone should speak enough about how good Schott jackets are.
Oh, and make sure to call LW. Pick up the phone and call! No Email.
I personally wouldn't put them drastically ahead of, say, Aero material-wise - the CXL has got enough unique charm not to be in any comparison with LW's sturdy HH which admittedly does feel & look a bit more plasticy - but the patterns indeed are considerably more comfortable and utilitarian. My Speed Demon is a 100% proper motorcycle jacket in every possible way and that does set it apart from most alternatives on the repro market. Except for Vanson of course.
Same as I'd place them ahead of Langlitz when it comes to how the jackets look when worn. While Langlitz is more refined than LW when it comes to some decorative details (though that's not what LW is all about since they hardly have any original designs, while Langlitz exclusively makes their own styles), TBH their jackets... Well, don't often fit very well. At all. Lots of Langlitz styles are too round, featureless and look like leather orbs. Much less shape to them.
I understand it's an approach that helps if you want your jackets to be comfortable but sometimes you want to be sure the jacket'll look good. Some of the Langlitz' I've seen... I'd literally have cried if I got that for $2500+.
Schott vs. LW... Schott jackets are in general well made, very comfortable and fit just fine. The material and attention to detail sets them back from LW but I said this before and I'll say it again, Schott's more premium lines are on nearly the same level as LW and if they tried, they could own anyone in the competition. Schott's exclusive CXL jackets, the 519, even the PER line... If you want the sleekest MC jackets out there, there's no alternative. None.
LW is directly knocking off three styles currently made by Schott and that alone should speak enough about how good Schott jackets are.
Oh, and make sure to call LW. Pick up the phone and call! No Email.
les_garten
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Carlos's Jacket you can see has basically little or no break in. You can buy lots of LW's like that. Since nobody can break them in and make them personally fit, you can find relative deals on like new jackets. On the sleeves of Carlos's jacket, you can see the strange stretch marks that are present on all HH from LW. This is part of the plastic-ky kind of feel I mentioned. If you want a Jacket that will prepetually look new, LW is it. Not knockin your jacket, so much as pointing out things I havew noticed on them.
I did pay my dues, My J-24 Custom was about $2500.
LW leather always has some quirks.
The HH of the A-2s, have the Plastic thing going on, the stretch marks, the fact that when they wear on the sleeves they turn black for some reason. The never go limp and form to you. Had my Dubow HH A-2 for over a decade I think. I'm keepin' it
The G-1 leather quirk is a good thing. I've had maybe 20 Navy Jackets, most authentic. Maybe 4 Reproductions. I've never had Goat as supple as the LW G-1, which makes me like it. The LW Goat also has those strange LW stretch marks. I think Stu has 'em slaughtered when they are preganant! All other goat I have has some amount of firm hand to it. Withe the exception of my Langlitz Goat Padded Pocket Columbia in Dark chocolate Goat. It is pretty supple. Keeping the LW G-1 forever also.
The main thing you can come back to is this. Why does Stuart say all the crazy things about real men and real jackets, and metrosexuals and all the other stuff on his ad copy? Because this is what he writes up after dealing with people complaining about his jackets.
Don't get me wrong, I LIKE Lost Worlds. But I know what it is and what it isn't. You look at the quirks and figure out if you can live with it or not.
If you had a Langlitz and it didn't fit, it was either second hand or you didn't have them fix it. They will take the jacket back, and give you your money back or work on it till it's right, period. Then it will feel like a custom glove on you. Padded Pocket Columbia in Goat, that's a 1000 mile a day riding jacket for those that do that type of thing, and then do it again the next day. Their style may be an acquired taste. Part of what helps you acquire it is wearing one. They're that nice.
I did pay my dues, My J-24 Custom was about $2500.
LW leather always has some quirks.
The HH of the A-2s, have the Plastic thing going on, the stretch marks, the fact that when they wear on the sleeves they turn black for some reason. The never go limp and form to you. Had my Dubow HH A-2 for over a decade I think. I'm keepin' it
The G-1 leather quirk is a good thing. I've had maybe 20 Navy Jackets, most authentic. Maybe 4 Reproductions. I've never had Goat as supple as the LW G-1, which makes me like it. The LW Goat also has those strange LW stretch marks. I think Stu has 'em slaughtered when they are preganant! All other goat I have has some amount of firm hand to it. Withe the exception of my Langlitz Goat Padded Pocket Columbia in Dark chocolate Goat. It is pretty supple. Keeping the LW G-1 forever also.
The main thing you can come back to is this. Why does Stuart say all the crazy things about real men and real jackets, and metrosexuals and all the other stuff on his ad copy? Because this is what he writes up after dealing with people complaining about his jackets.
Don't get me wrong, I LIKE Lost Worlds. But I know what it is and what it isn't. You look at the quirks and figure out if you can live with it or not.
If you had a Langlitz and it didn't fit, it was either second hand or you didn't have them fix it. They will take the jacket back, and give you your money back or work on it till it's right, period. Then it will feel like a custom glove on you. Padded Pocket Columbia in Goat, that's a 1000 mile a day riding jacket for those that do that type of thing, and then do it again the next day. Their style may be an acquired taste. Part of what helps you acquire it is wearing one. They're that nice.
El Marro
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I am well on the way to breaking in my heavy horsehide LW CHP and I think it is one of the nicer leathers in my collection. Even when the jacket arrived I was surprised by the soft supple feeling of the horsehide, much different than the feel of a brand new CW Vanson for instance. My jacket also has those wavy stretch marks but they don’t bother me a bit and they are giving way to folds, creases and grain emerging as the jacket wears in.
I do own a couple Langlitz leathers jackets as well. My Columbia fits me very well (they had to make it twice) and offers greater freedom of movement then any jacket I own except perhaps a well fitting G-1. The leather on my Langlitz Is the medium weight cowhide and in my opinion it is not nearly as nice as horsehide from LW. Despite receiving plenty of wear and spending some time outside in the rain it still has a boring plasticky look to it. With a lot more wear and use I’m sure it will get better but I think the LW will always have an edge on it in the looks department.
As far as Stuarts bizarre writing on the webpage I simply choose to ignore it, or laugh about it when I do come across some goofy thing he has written. I feel pretty confident in who I am and what I am and I don’t equate my masculinity with my leather jackets (thank god!).
I agree with the others that email is perfectly fine way to communicate with Stuart and an occasional phone conversation is nice because he can be quite personable and obviously very serious about what he does.
I do own a couple Langlitz leathers jackets as well. My Columbia fits me very well (they had to make it twice) and offers greater freedom of movement then any jacket I own except perhaps a well fitting G-1. The leather on my Langlitz Is the medium weight cowhide and in my opinion it is not nearly as nice as horsehide from LW. Despite receiving plenty of wear and spending some time outside in the rain it still has a boring plasticky look to it. With a lot more wear and use I’m sure it will get better but I think the LW will always have an edge on it in the looks department.
As far as Stuarts bizarre writing on the webpage I simply choose to ignore it, or laugh about it when I do come across some goofy thing he has written. I feel pretty confident in who I am and what I am and I don’t equate my masculinity with my leather jackets (thank god!).
I agree with the others that email is perfectly fine way to communicate with Stuart and an occasional phone conversation is nice because he can be quite personable and obviously very serious about what he does.
You complain that LW is impossible to break in, saying:
"I was convinced I needed to start breaking it in when I was 10 or 11 maybe. Starting in my 50's, ain't gonna happen. It was a beauty though. The things that bother people about LW jackets, this one had it all in spades. Construction, materials, stitching, AWESOME! In the end, it had to go. I was gonna have to bleed and need medical attention just to attempt to put a small hardly noticeable crease in it"
I show you photographic proof that a LW will get more creases in 1 month of wear than a 15 year old Schott, and will perfectly mold to your body in the same length of time, you come back saying "Carlos's Jacket you can see has basically little or no break in"...
I'm not sure what you mean by break in, but it looks like we are not using the same definition
EDIT: Just noticed that the add you made to sell your J-24 says "I bought this Jacket 2 years ago and it has never been worn other than trying on" and the pictures posted are indeed of an unworn looking jacket:
http://www.turbonet.biz/Ebay/LW/International.html
So you complain that a jacket that you never wore was never broken in?
Sounds like the kind of logic that started the "LW are forever new" back in the days!
This is my LT at 20 days of wear, how are these not creases? What more do you want from a leather jacket?
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I'd like to thank all the inputs and photos, very helpful. While my original question is just a comparison between the two maker's J24, the extra experiences are insightful. I am not unfamiliar with LW, just not their flagship J24, and I also never handled the Aero J24 in any leather (had a custom goatskin Daytona, big mistake).
Since the cowhide of Langlitz and HH of LW was brought up, I'd like to say I'd prefer the Langlitz cowhide. It is NOT plasticy, the surface glaze is an attractive feature, and it relatively quickly wear off. The rest of the difference is just animal species, as expected, the cow is more supple and stretchy, HH doesn't stretch. The LW HH is more matte, but it's just a finishing choice. For me, LW leather is shoe leather, just like Horween CXL., good for workboots.
Speaking of Stu's salesmanship, one little detail rings loud. Once when I was into teacore, i asked him if the black HH will fade or scrap to brown, without hesitation he said yes, because I think that's what's hot, he realized i'm one of those who likes teacore so he went along. No, his HH does not go brown. Maybe after decades of exposed to the elements and sun, the black pigment may fade to brown, the sanding will not reveal brown, it's simple, the middle layer is white, not brown, that's it.
If his black HH comes in less than 4oz, I'd go for it for a jacket, no problem, and I'd probably choose it over CXL. This is because CXL stiffens up in cold, and that is just not something you want a warm-keeping piece of clothing to feel like (it's cold, i go grab my leather jacket, but the jacket feels even colder to the touch, what does that make me want to put it on?). The softer CXL (not sure if Horween still call it CXL, Dublin, Essex, in lighter weights), and other products by Horween (deertan?) feel a lot better for jackets.
Now back to "construction", sorry, by this word I don't mean stitching, I mean the geometry and ergonomics. Or, perhaps, in historical accuracy, since it's a repro. Aero's patterns are cookie cut by genre, so I wonder if their J24 is more accurate or a run of the mill base template, and if so, which other jacket share the same template.
Since the cowhide of Langlitz and HH of LW was brought up, I'd like to say I'd prefer the Langlitz cowhide. It is NOT plasticy, the surface glaze is an attractive feature, and it relatively quickly wear off. The rest of the difference is just animal species, as expected, the cow is more supple and stretchy, HH doesn't stretch. The LW HH is more matte, but it's just a finishing choice. For me, LW leather is shoe leather, just like Horween CXL., good for workboots.
Speaking of Stu's salesmanship, one little detail rings loud. Once when I was into teacore, i asked him if the black HH will fade or scrap to brown, without hesitation he said yes, because I think that's what's hot, he realized i'm one of those who likes teacore so he went along. No, his HH does not go brown. Maybe after decades of exposed to the elements and sun, the black pigment may fade to brown, the sanding will not reveal brown, it's simple, the middle layer is white, not brown, that's it.
If his black HH comes in less than 4oz, I'd go for it for a jacket, no problem, and I'd probably choose it over CXL. This is because CXL stiffens up in cold, and that is just not something you want a warm-keeping piece of clothing to feel like (it's cold, i go grab my leather jacket, but the jacket feels even colder to the touch, what does that make me want to put it on?). The softer CXL (not sure if Horween still call it CXL, Dublin, Essex, in lighter weights), and other products by Horween (deertan?) feel a lot better for jackets.
Now back to "construction", sorry, by this word I don't mean stitching, I mean the geometry and ergonomics. Or, perhaps, in historical accuracy, since it's a repro. Aero's patterns are cookie cut by genre, so I wonder if their J24 is more accurate or a run of the mill base template, and if so, which other jacket share the same template.
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I... Wouldn't say that. I think it's too... Um, thin to be workboot leather. There, I said it. It's just the perfect kind of hide you'd want your motorcycle/work jacket be made in, without being overly heavy or stiff. But for a footwear leather, I definitely would prefer something heavier. [/QUOTE]
It does. Stu's mid-weight hide is 3-3.5 oz. If you can get him to actually use that hide. Many have tried, many failed.
There isn't anything special about the way J-24 is made. It's just a... Leather jacket. Nothing in particular stood on RMC's J-24 that I have tried, compared to Aero's version. Not sure what you mean? Cool details and pocket features aside, it's just your standard cross zipper bike jacket with a full action back.
This a fallacy as @Carlos840 showed you painstakingly, and I will add this
This has moulded to my shape.
You didn't like LW, that's fine, they are pretty unique and not to everyone's taste. Nobody will look down on you for this. We are lucky to have a lot of interesting makers.
There isn't anything special about the way J-24 is made. It's just a... Leather jacket. Nothing in particular stood on RMC's J-24 that I have tried, compared to Aero's version. Not sure what you mean? Cool details and pocket features aside, it's just your standard cross zipper bike jacket with a full action back.[/QUOTE]
Monitor, thanks, so, when a jacket is made, the pattern maker first create a bodice, a base patter, sans all surface details (pocket, studs, epaulettes etc), this base template determines how the jacket fits, everything else are blings, like having NAV in a car or not, won't change how the cars powertrain and geometry etc. This is what I was asking mainly. For example, Aero's "Original Hercules" is the same/similar base pattern as their 50s HB, their dustbowl is the same as the 30s HB, the Tunderbay is the same jacket as Route 66 and Trailrider and Motorcycle Jacket, so on. Supposedly, the Indian Ranger of Aero is one and only, a uniquely created/re-created pattern, plus the decorations, but many of their jackets are not. It's for economy, mass production purpose, makes sense to most people who wants a vintage-inspired copy but not for a purist who wants a more accurate copy, for that, you go to Chapman or Norshor or some Japanese maker.
To my understanding, the Lost World J24 is through and through most accurate, maybe the Diamond Dave one but i don't know, and maybe the McCoy one. So, how does Aero's J24 stack up.
Monitor, thanks, so, when a jacket is made, the pattern maker first create a bodice, a base patter, sans all surface details (pocket, studs, epaulettes etc), this base template determines how the jacket fits, everything else are blings, like having NAV in a car or not, won't change how the cars powertrain and geometry etc. This is what I was asking mainly. For example, Aero's "Original Hercules" is the same/similar base pattern as their 50s HB, their dustbowl is the same as the 30s HB, the Tunderbay is the same jacket as Route 66 and Trailrider and Motorcycle Jacket, so on. Supposedly, the Indian Ranger of Aero is one and only, a uniquely created/re-created pattern, plus the decorations, but many of their jackets are not. It's for economy, mass production purpose, makes sense to most people who wants a vintage-inspired copy but not for a purist who wants a more accurate copy, for that, you go to Chapman or Norshor or some Japanese maker.
To my understanding, the Lost World J24 is through and through most accurate, maybe the Diamond Dave one but i don't know, and maybe the McCoy one. So, how does Aero's J24 stack up.
les_garten
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This a fallacy as @Carlos840 showed you painstakingly, and I will add this
This has moulded to my shape.
You didn't like LW, that's fine, they are pretty unique and not to everyone's taste. Nobody will look down on you for this. We are lucky to have a lot of interesting makers.
Great looking jacket!
Interesting, what is a J-106?? is it a made-up name? Aero's Buco is J-106, but it's meant to be a J-24...from what I can see, the collar, lapel angle and size, armhole, D pocket shape, are all different from LW's J-24, I guess I answered my own questions. Aero's is a J-24 inspired jacket....
