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Messages
10,829
Location
vancouver, canada
Also, does anyone know anything about Biltmore hats? I found one online by them that's up my alley, but know nothing of the brand other than they're based out of Canada, which is kinda funny seeing as I'm looking for a western hat.
Biltmore used to be Canadian but was purchased by Stetson. They are a decent fur felt hat. I have one in a stiffer western feel to it but the style is that of the country gentleman between western and fedora. They offer a decent value for the dollar. Also check out Sewmaster53 on Ebay. They are a dead stock/sample hat Stetson reseller at least 50% off the retail.
 

1967Cougar390

Practically Family
Messages
789
Location
South Carolina
Hello all. I stumbled across this forum while searching online for hats, and having a few questions I decided to join in the charade. I've been a hat lover for most of my life, from ball caps, to "fashion" fedoras. I've always had a fondness for brimmed hats, thanks to Indiana Jones. The only ones I've ever owned outside of crushable wool or cotton have been a cowboy hat and an Indiana Jones brand fedora, both wool felt. I've never really worn them because I live in the urban midwest, and it's not necessarily the hip thing to wear. Now that I'm older and could care less if I'm hip, I've decided to step my game up and treat myself to something nice without breaking the bank.

Other than how they look, I know pretty much nothing about hats when it comes to terminology or how they're made. I'm in the market for a western style fedora or pinch front with a flatter brim. I would prefer it to be fur felt, again without breaking the bank. A question I have is do all fur felt hats have a firm feel to them? I ask this because on a recent trip to Arizona, I visited the Az-Tex hat company in Scottsdale. Most, if not all of their fur hats had a softer feel to them. The brims weren't floppy or anything, but they definitely had some give. I really liked the feel of them, but don't feel like shelling out the $500 they were asking for many of them. Now I'm left confused because all of the other hats I've looked at elsewhere had the firm feel to them like the wool felts that I have. Another question I have is how well fur felt holds up in rain? I know fur holds up to the elements better than wool, but I'd most likely be wearing it to work a lot (I work outside) and didn't know how well it would survive a sudden downpour. And, am I right in believing that fur wouldn't be ideal to wear in the summer?

I am sorry for the lengthy post, and if any of my questions were silly. Thank you for your time.

You received great advise in the previous posts. The only thing I can add it that once you buy a hat make room for more because like most of us you can't stop at just one. Welcome to the FL.

Steven
 
Messages
12,384
Location
Albany Oregon
Hello all. I stumbled across this forum while searching online for hats, and having a few questions I decided to join in the charade. I've been a hat lover for most of my life, from ball caps, to "fashion" fedoras. I've always had a fondness for brimmed hats, thanks to Indiana Jones. The only ones I've ever owned outside of crushable wool or cotton have been a cowboy hat and an Indiana Jones brand fedora, both wool felt. I've never really worn them because I live in the urban midwest, and it's not necessarily the hip thing to wear. Now that I'm older and could care less if I'm hip, I've decided to step my game up and treat myself to something nice without breaking the bank.

Other than how they look, I know pretty much nothing about hats when it comes to terminology or how they're made. I'm in the market for a western style fedora or pinch front with a flatter brim. I would prefer it to be fur felt, again without breaking the bank. A question I have is do all fur felt hats have a firm feel to them? I ask this because on a recent trip to Arizona, I visited the Az-Tex hat company in Scottsdale. Most, if not all of their fur hats had a softer feel to them. The brims weren't floppy or anything, but they definitely had some give. I really liked the feel of them, but don't feel like shelling out the $500 they were asking for many of them. Now I'm left confused because all of the other hats I've looked at elsewhere had the firm feel to them like the wool felts that I have. Another question I have is how well fur felt holds up in rain? I know fur holds up to the elements better than wool, but I'd most likely be wearing it to work a lot (I work outside) and didn't know how well it would survive a sudden downpour. And, am I right in believing that fur wouldn't be ideal to wear in the summer?

I am sorry for the lengthy post, and if any of my questions were silly. Thank you for your time.
Welcome to the forum Mr. Rack. Hip is in the eye of the beholder. I would suggest some "required" reading, the Links to Important Hat Forum Threads will have answers to just about any question you could come up with. Fur and straw hats are in your future.
 
Messages
19,001
Location
Central California
Also, does anyone know anything about Biltmore hats? I found one online by them that's up my alley, but know nothing of the brand other than they're based out of Canada, which is kinda funny seeing as I'm looking for a western hat.

Biltmore made some good hats. The name still exists and they are now being made in the US but the made in Canada real Biltmores can be a good bargain. Over the years they made hats for Stetson and Miller amongst others. They also made some in wool so be aware of that.

I own several Biltmore hats from fedoras to westerns to Homburgs and they are all nice hats. If the price is right I’d consider it.
 
Messages
19,001
Location
Central California
Hello all. I stumbled across this forum while searching online for hats, and having a few questions I decided to join in the charade. I've been a hat lover for most of my life, from ball caps, to "fashion" fedoras. I've always had a fondness for brimmed hats, thanks to Indiana Jones. The only ones I've ever owned outside of crushable wool or cotton have been a cowboy hat and an Indiana Jones brand fedora, both wool felt. I've never really worn them because I live in the urban midwest, and it's not necessarily the hip thing to wear. Now that I'm older and could care less if I'm hip, I've decided to step my game up and treat myself to something nice without breaking the bank.

Other than how they look, I know pretty much nothing about hats when it comes to terminology or how they're made. I'm in the market for a western style fedora or pinch front with a flatter brim. I would prefer it to be fur felt, again without breaking the bank. A question I have is do all fur felt hats have a firm feel to them? I ask this because on a recent trip to Arizona, I visited the Az-Tex hat company in Scottsdale. Most, if not all of their fur hats had a softer feel to them. The brims weren't floppy or anything, but they definitely had some give. I really liked the feel of them, but don't feel like shelling out the $500 they were asking for many of them. Now I'm left confused because all of the other hats I've looked at elsewhere had the firm feel to them like the wool felts that I have. Another question I have is how well fur felt holds up in rain? I know fur holds up to the elements better than wool, but I'd most likely be wearing it to work a lot (I work outside) and didn't know how well it would survive a sudden downpour. And, am I right in believing that fur wouldn't be ideal to wear in the summer?

I am sorry for the lengthy post, and if any of my questions were silly. Thank you for your time.

If you have a small to medium head there are some incredible vintage hats to be had for a bargain. If you have a larger head the search can take more time. If you want new, you can find some wonderful fur felt hats in the under $200 price range... wonderful, but no comparison to a great vintage hat. Before you buy, spend some time here and ask questions so you don’t pay more than you need to and you get a hat that you’ll be happy with.

And welcome!

Brent
 

Just A Hat Rack

Practically Family
Messages
619
Location
Buckeye Nation
The condensed version:
1) The "softness" of a hat can mean two things that are slightly related, but also, not. There's the malleability of the felt and then there's the actual tactile feel. The former is more related to the quality of the felt itself, as well as the addition of stiffener, while the latter is related to the material and the time and effort spent finishing the hat.

Modern western hats are fairly stiff.

2) Most fur felts should be fine in the rain. Some caveats apply. Generally, wild hare is favored over rabbit, and beaver is favored over wild hare in terms of water resistance.

3) Yup, summer is straw hat season, you need one of those too. :D
Visiting that store really threw me off. I don't doubt the quality of their stuff, but what do I know. I knew stiffeners were added to hats, maybe they weren't added yet? I am not sure what a hat is like without stiffener.
 

Just A Hat Rack

Practically Family
Messages
619
Location
Buckeye Nation
Welcome to the forum Mr. Rack. Hip is in the eye of the beholder. I would suggest some "required" reading, the Links to Important Hat Forum Threads will have answers to just about any question you could come up with. Fur and straw hats are in your future.
Thanks for the link, I will look into it. And believe me, I would have many more hats if the Mrs. understood what owning a hat meant.
 

Just A Hat Rack

Practically Family
Messages
619
Location
Buckeye Nation
If you have a small to medium head there are some incredible vintage hats to be had for a bargain. If you have a larger head the search can take more time. If you want new, you can find some wonderful fur felt hats in the under $200 price range... wonderful, but no comparison to a great vintage hat. Before you buy, spend some time here and ask questions so you don’t pay more than you need to and you get a hat that you’ll be happy with.

And welcome!

Brent
My fitted ball caps are 7 3/8. I'm not sure where that lands as far as large or small. I do know it doesn't take long for them to shrink if I don't wear them enough.

I'm looking to buy a new hat, and yes I want to make sure I buy the "perfect" one. Hats aren't something I can just drop a couple hundred bucks on and get away with it. I'm still trying to figure out a few things like stiffness and such. I have one that I'm leaning towards, I'll post a link when I have more time.
 
Messages
12,003
Location
Southern California
My fitted ball caps are 7 3/8. I'm not sure where that lands as far as large or small. I do know it doesn't take long for them to shrink if I don't wear them enough...
Somewhere here on The Lounge an informal poll was conducted and the results showed 7-3/8 (59) and 7-1/2 (60) were the most common sizes among the members; if I remember correctly, 7-3/8 took first place by a narrow margin. If that's true those sizes would be right in the middle between "small" and "large", but I think most people consider 7-3/8 to be on the low end of "large".

By the way, if you do find the "perfect" hat, please let us know. Most of us have been looking for it for years. ;)
 
Messages
19,001
Location
Central California
Here is the link to a Biltmore I'm looking at. There's a couple in the Stetson Gun Club line that I like as well...

https://www.villagehatshop.com/product/fur-felt/451139-421052/biltmore-crossroads-western-hat.html

I too like the Stetson Gun Club (modern incarnation). Stetson classifies then as “Outdoors” hat rather than westerns. They are western weight felts with lots of stiffeners. You really need to go into a shop and try several on to get a good idea of your size. I’m a 7 5/8 in soft fedoras, but 7 3/4 fit me better in western weight hats that can’t easily conform to my long oval head.

The Biltmore is made by Hat-co, the same maker as Stetson/Resistol. I think it will be a very similar hat...possibly exactly the same but with different branding.

The hats you’re looking at are rugged and should give you years of service, but they are not soft and they are not capable of being dressed up much. The felt will be hard to the touch and quite rigid. If that’s what you’re after you should like either of them.

If you want to buy retail, give One 2 Mini Ranch a look. You can also try the outlets and maybe pay half price.

Brent.
 
Last edited:
Messages
19,001
Location
Central California
Welcome to my world. Don't worry, after a while, they cease to notice...

Hmm. My wife still notices. She doesn’t ask “so what makes this one different” anymore and she knows better to ask what they cost, but she always notices them. I definitely married up and my wife overlooks a litany of foibles and failings.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Just A Hat Rack

Practically Family
Messages
619
Location
Buckeye Nation
I too like the Stetson Gun Club (modern incarnation). Stetson classifies then as “Outdoors” hat rather than westerns. They are western weight felts with lots of stiffeners. You really need to go into a shop and try several on to get a good idea of your size. I’m a 7 5/8 in soft fedoras, but 7 3/4 fit me better in western weight hats that can’t easily conform to my long oval head.

The Biltmore is made by Hat-co, the same maker as Stetson/Resistol. I think it will be a very similar hat...possibly exactly the same but with different branding.

The hats you’re looking at are rugged and should give you years of service, but they are not soft and they are not capable of being dressed up much. The felt will be hard to the touch and quite rigid. If that’s what you’re after you should like either of them.

If you want to buy retail, give One 2 Mini Ranch a look. You can also try the outlets and maybe pay half price.

Brent.
Thanks for the tips. I'm not necessarily looking for a western hat by name. Cowboy hats tend to be lumped into that label as well, and that's not what I'm looking for. Like you mentioned, I'm after the more rugged look. I like the pinch front and at least a 3" flatter brim. I'm learning fast that they are usually not soft. A firm crown doesn't bother me quite as much, but a brim with a tad bit of give was ideal. Like I had mentioned earlier, a visit to Az-Tex threw me off not knowing much about hats. At the end of the day, a comfortable piece that looks good and is well worth the money is what I'm looking for.

To add another question, do firm hats become more malleable over time and usage, and is that part of the reason why vintage hats hold so much value?

I like the idea of trying hats on for size. The trouble is where I live there is only one western store in the area, and the only thing they have in fur is cowboy hats. So if I order online I may have to play the exchange game until I find the right fix.

Thanks for all the help,
Ryan
 
Messages
19,001
Location
Central California
Thanks for the tips. I'm not necessarily looking for a western hat by name. Cowboy hats tend to be lumped into that label as well, and that's not what I'm looking for. Like you mentioned, I'm after the more rugged look. I like the pinch front and at least a 3" flatter brim. I'm learning fast that they are usually not soft. A firm crown doesn't bother me quite as much, but a brim with a tad bit of give was ideal. Like I had mentioned earlier, a visit to Az-Tex threw me off not knowing much about hats. At the end of the day, a comfortable piece that looks good and is well worth the money is what I'm looking for.

To add another question, do firm hats become more malleable over time and usage, and is that part of the reason why vintage hats hold so much value?

I like the idea of trying hats on for size. The trouble is where I live there is only one western store in the area, and the only thing they have in fur is cowboy hats. So if I order online I may have to play the exchange game until I find the right fix.

Thanks for all the help,
Ryan

Western hat can soften up over decades, but they will never be soft like a nice fedora. If you want the outdoorsy or rugged look without going western then you’re looking at the right hats. However, the entire hat will be stiff.

If you want it both ways you can have a hat custom built for you for a lot less than you might think. Check out
https://www.stakerhats.com/
For $200 you can get a rabbit fur felt hat and you can specify you want it to have be made from a fedora hat body. Lots of other custom routes too. You might also look at Akubra hats as they are good value for money.
 
Messages
19,001
Location
Central California
Thanks for the tips. I'm not necessarily looking for a western hat by name. Cowboy hats tend to be lumped into that label as well, and that's not what I'm looking for. Like you mentioned, I'm after the more rugged look. I like the pinch front and at least a 3" flatter brim. I'm learning fast that they are usually not soft. A firm crown doesn't bother me quite as much, but a brim with a tad bit of give was ideal. Like I had mentioned earlier, a visit to Az-Tex threw me off not knowing much about hats. At the end of the day, a comfortable piece that looks good and is well worth the money is what I'm looking for.

To add another question, do firm hats become more malleable over time and usage, and is that part of the reason why vintage hats hold so much value?

I like the idea of trying hats on for size. The trouble is where I live there is only one western store in the area, and the only thing they have in fur is cowboy hats. So if I order online I may have to play the exchange game until I find the right fix.

Thanks for all the help,
Ryan

And for about $150 including shipping Agnoulita will make you a hat to your specifications and you can tell him just how much stiffener you want, and maybe even get the brim softer than the crown.
 

Just A Hat Rack

Practically Family
Messages
619
Location
Buckeye Nation
The Biltmore is made by Hat-co, the same maker as Stetson/Resistol. I think it will be a very similar hat...possibly exactly the same but with different branding.

The hats you’re looking aOTE]
Western hat can soften up over decades, but they will never be soft like a nice fedora. If you want the outdoorsy or rugged look without going western then you’re looking at the right hats. However, the entire hat will be stiff.

If you want it both ways you can have a hat custom built for you for a lot less than you might think. Check out
https://www.stakerhats.com/
For $200 you can get a rabbit fur felt hat and you can specify you want it to have be made from a fedora hat body. Lots of other custom routes too. You might also look at Akubra hats as they are good value for money.
I guess I'm having trouble differentiating between a western and a fedora, or more specifically, what exactly you describe as a fedora. Are you referring to a more stylistic short brimmed version? I mentioned before that my love for hats began with the Indy (which I know were different styles for each movie). I also like the more rugged look with a casual feel, if you catch my drift. If you've ever seen the tv series Justified, the main character wears a custom Stetson. It's got somewhat of a rugged look to it, but he wears it with style. Although I don't want that exact hat, that's the look I'm going for. Now it's been mentioned before that fedoras tend to be softer than westerns, is that why you suggest me looking into customs?

I will take your advice and look into custom made hats. Thanks everyone for all the help. It's been very informative. I apologise for overloading with questions, and if I'm slow to grasp things. I just want to make the right choice before I buy.
 

Just A Hat Rack

Practically Family
Messages
619
Location
Buckeye Nation
And for about $150 including shipping Agnoulita will make you a hat to your specifications and you can tell him just how much stiffener you want, and maybe even get the brim softer than the crown.
Will less stiffener diminish the quality of the hat, or how it will hold up to the elements? I am not sure of the purpose of stiffeners, other than to make the hat stiff.
 

jlee562

I'll Lock Up
Messages
5,097
Location
San Francisco, CA
Thanks for the tips. I'm not necessarily looking for a western hat by name. Cowboy hats tend to be lumped into that label as well, and that's not what I'm looking for. Like you mentioned, I'm after the more rugged look. I like the pinch front and at least a 3" flatter brim. I'm learning fast that they are usually not soft. A firm crown doesn't bother me quite as much, but a brim with a tad bit of give was ideal. Like I had mentioned earlier, a visit to Az-Tex threw me off not knowing much about hats. At the end of the day, a comfortable piece that looks good and is well worth the money is what I'm looking for.

To add another question, do firm hats become more malleable over time and usage, and is that part of the reason why vintage hats hold so much value?

I like the idea of trying hats on for size. The trouble is where I live there is only one western store in the area, and the only thing they have in fur is cowboy hats. So if I order online I may have to play the exchange game until I find the right fix.

Thanks for all the help,
Ryan

Again, this is the condensed version. A deep dive in the lounge will reveal nuance, caveats, and varying opinions.....above all, buying vintage is always kind of a gamble (sweatbands shrink; dry out; sometimes smell musty; sometimes are measured by sellers, etc)

That being said, we go through all the effort because the average vintage hat is just better made than the average hat today. This is due to a number of reasons, some are more opaque to the consumer than others. Mercury processed felt a being notable example of how the production process has changed. Vintage ribbons don't have synthetic fibers. The attention to detail was generally greater. The ribbons on modern Stetsons (which are technically produced by Hatco, licensee of the Stetson brand) are affixed with clear poly thread...think fishing wire. Why do they do this? I guess changing spools of matching threads is too tedious...or they ordered too much poly thread some time in the 70's and are still trying to use it up. It's the kind of thing that you might not have noticed until it was pointed out. Especially if all you've ever seen is modern hats. But the ribbons on vintage hats are tacked on neatly, near the finished edge of the ribbon, so as to hide as much of the stitch as possible.

No, really, I swear this is the condensed version.:cool:

generally a firmer hat will soften with age and exposure to the elements. There are also techniques to remove some of the stiffened using denatured alcohol.

I've always liked the Dune in the Gun Club collection. Somewhere between Aussie/Western/Fedora:
https://www.delmonicohatter.com/Stetson/SF04161139.htm
 

Just A Hat Rack

Practically Family
Messages
619
Location
Buckeye Nation
Again, this is the condensed version. A deep dive in the lounge will reveal nuance, caveats, and varying opinions.....above all, buying vintage is always kind of a gamble (sweatbands shrink; dry out; sometimes smell musty; sometimes are measured by sellers, etc)

That being said, we go through all the effort because the average vintage hat is just better made than the average hat today. This is due to a number of reasons, some are more opaque to the consumer than others. Mercury processed felt a being notable example of how the production process has changed. Vintage ribbons don't have synthetic fibers. The attention to detail was generally greater. The ribbons on modern Stetsons (which are technically produced by Hatco, licensee of the Stetson brand) are affixed with clear poly thread...think fishing wire. Why do they do this? I guess changing spools of matching threads is too tedious...or they ordered too much poly thread some time in the 70's and are still trying to use it up. It's the kind of thing that you might not have noticed until it was pointed out. Especially if all you've ever seen is modern hats. But the ribbons on vintage hats are tacked on neatly, near the finished edge of the ribbon, so as to hide as much of the stitch as possible.

No, really, I swear this is the condensed version.:cool:

generally a firmer hat will soften with age and exposure to the elements. There are also techniques to remove some of the stiffened using denatured alcohol.

I've always liked the Dune in the Gun Club collection. Somewhere between Aussie/Western/Fedora:
https://www.delmonicohatter.com/Stetson/SF04161139.htm
Yeah I get it. With a lot of things these days, they cheapen the way they make things to lower the cost of manufacturing. I can see where a lot of those things are important to people. At this point, I'm not enough of an aficionado to take those sort of things into account. I'm just trying to get myself a nice hat that will last several years before I get my next one ;).

The Dune is a nice looking hat, I'm not that wild about the ribbon though.
 

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